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    Quote Originally Posted by joe12south View Post
    I primarily care about getting the highest quality image that I can squeeze into my budget. Everything else is secondary.
    That's the viewpoint I was coming from as well. "What's the best image I can get for the money?" On that question, I still believe it's "Game over, Panasonic".


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    Quote Originally Posted by Ron Evans View Post
    Striving for better and better camera specs does not unfortunately improve the content.

    True. But it can improve the technical quality of that content. That's the viewpoint we gearheads are using.


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    Senior Member Thomas Smet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by joe12south View Post
    Look at the masthead: "The Online Community for Filmmakers"

    Yes, I am biased. I primarily care about getting the highest quality image that I can squeeze into my budget. Everything else is secondary. Having had to settle for barely good enough for years – from cameras that have artificially crippled their video image in one way or another – to finally be able to purchase a camera I can afford that will allow me to get the full quality the sensor captures is very exciting. I would never go back to shooting JPEG stills (even though they are certainly smaller than RAW stills) and doubt I'll ever want to go back to shooting smooshed video.
    Filmmaking has many different meanings. but you do have a point which is why the 10bit 4:2:2 on the GH5 is so important. I would love for you to show me clear examples of how ProRes is so superior to 150mbps and 400mbps on the GH5. I will wait while you attempt to dig up that proof. You are being a bit snobbish now. I have a VFX background and nobody wants 4:4:4 more than I do and yet I understand just how good these compressed formats have come. Stephen Fleet is the VFX Supervisor on Marvels Iron Fist and other VFX related TV shows and he uses the GH5 to shoot background plates. He of course prefers a 4:4:4 source for the main content but even he is greatly impressed with the 150mbps on the GH5. I can share with you a couple of videos he created where he puts the GH5 codecs through some rigorous tests. I would love for you to do your own tests to show me just how crappy the GH5 codecs really are. Saying it is one thing but actually proving it is another.

    I didn't realize pointing out a fact about files being 5x larger and more expensive would hurt your feelings so much. Don't take it personal. If you want to buy a Pocket and believe that will magically make a huge difference in your bottom line then please go ahead and do that. I think the Pocket is a great camera and I'm excited to see it become a reality. That doesn't mean using it doesn't have certain drawbacks for some people. You may be incapable of putting yourself in the shoes of others and thats ok. It is really about your own needs and you made it loud and clear how emotionally attached you are to getting rid of the the horrible formats you have been plagued with all these years. Maybe I'm more of a glass half full guy vs "where the hell is my damn water" kind of guy but at my age I learned to stop worrying about the small details and focus on the bigger picture. Having started out years ago with VHS, Hi-8, S-VHS, Betacam and then DV maybe I can appreciate a little bit more just how much we have today. I recently dug up some footage from my old Canon XL1 and I honestly almost vomited a little in my mouth.

    Nobody is saying you shouldn't care about quality. If that is your thing then go get it. As someone with a VFX background I also want 4:4:4 if I can get it which is why I am really considering the Pocket myself. I also don't do as much VFX and 3D animation work as I use to so I need to weigh the cons with the pros. I can also understand at the same time that not everybody has those same needs. The masthead may say one thing but if you read some of the diversity on this forum you will realize filmmakers only make up a portion of the users here. The GH5 is also not bought by just filmmakers and really they likely make up a very small fraction of the actual GH5 sales. You are clearly a filmmaker and you should use the tool that you feel works best for you but don't pretend you represent every GH5 user because you don't. I don't either but I can take a step back and look at all the pros and cons and not get all giddy over a new tool.

    Now if it is ok with you I would like to continue to discuss the pros and cons of the camera vs the mud slinging so I can make my own informed decision without people treating me like I'm nuts for not needing raw. My wife may agree that I'm nuts but I'm pretty sure I'm not.


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    The primary benefits to RAW are avoiding the irreversible effects of burning in-camera white balance, debayering, and sharpening into the footage. The downside of RAW is its wasteful allocation of most of its bandwidth to perceptibly indistinguishable details. What's needed to make RAW more practical and efficient are industry standards for LOG-scaled RAW recording using floating-point encoding to eliminate the dynamic range limits of fixed-point formats. ProRes RAW makes no attempt to tackle this challenge, it encodes the camera's RAW data in linear, fixed-point format and uses conventional data compression techniques to reduce overall bitrate. In my view, it is a transitional stepping stone rather than a long-term solution.

    The choice between long-GOP vs All-I H.264 recording is likewise hamstrung by archaic industry encoding practices. All-I is obviously wasteful for locked-down static shots, but even 400Mbps is not enough bitrate to avoid artifacts in highly-detailed motion at 10-bit 4K. Long-GOP at 150Mbps eliminates data redundancy, but propagates cummulative artifacts across reconstructed, daisy-chained P-frames. Both rely on artificial deblocking filters to conceal macroblock edges that would otherwise look atrocious. While there's no magic bullet with this kind of content-sensitive data compression, use of adaptive short-GOP encoding would greatly ameliorate the inflexible drawbacks of current long-GOP and All-I formats. This is the main reason I still use my hacked GH2 for 1080p fast-action shots - Flow Motion's 100Mbps 3-frame IB GOP's capture the details virtually free of macroblock artifacts.


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    Awesome post.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Lpowell View Post
    The primary benefits to RAW are avoiding the irreversible effects of burning in-camera white balance, debayering, and sharpening into the footage. The downside of RAW is its wasteful allocation of most of its bandwidth to perceptibly indistinguishable details. What's needed to make RAW more practical and efficient are industry standards for LOG-scaled RAW recording using floating-point encoding to eliminate the dynamic range limits of fixed-point formats. ProRes RAW makes no attempt to tackle this challenge, it encodes the camera's RAW data in linear, fixed-point format and uses conventional data compression techniques to reduce overall bitrate. In my view, it is a transitional stepping stone rather than a long-term solution.

    The choice between long-GOP vs All-I H.264 recording is likewise hamstrung by archaic industry encoding practices. All-I is obviously wasteful for locked-down static shots, but even 400Mbps is not enough bitrate to avoid artifacts in highly-detailed motion at 10-bit 4K. Long-GOP at 150Mbps eliminates data redundancy, but propagates cummulative artifacts across reconstructed, daisy-chained P-frames. Both rely on artificial deblocking filters to conceal macroblock edges that would otherwise look atrocious. While there's no magic bullet with this kind of content-sensitive data compression, use of adaptive short-GOP encoding would greatly ameliorate the inflexible drawbacks of current long-GOP and All-I formats. This is the main reason I still use my hacked GH2 for 1080p fast-action shots - Flow Motion's 100Mbps 3-frame IB GOP's capture the details virtually free of macroblock artifacts.
    Bingo.

    RAW is what I prefer in all instances where final Image Quality is paramount, or if I will be finishing it and not handing off the footage to someone else to finish.

    Background VFX plates can always be shot in any clean 4K camera because they are not the main focus of the scene (generally) and because they will usually be heavily affected to meet the final lighting and perspective requirements of a scene. I have even used stills I shot AS STILLS on my GH2 for background plates that didn't require motion matching - like backgrounds or building on shots that were either static, or tracked in or out.

    When I am shooting with either of my Panasonic GH cameras, the 2 or the 4, I almost always have a 5-inch or 7-inch external monitor connected, and the return of the 5-inch touch screen on the new 4K Pocket Camera is fantastic. That will actually allow me to forgo an external monitor in a great many shooting conditions, thus making a typical rig SMALLER when using this camera.

    It's going to hurt the GH5 sales. I am proof of that. I got a GH5s ten days ago but just returned it yesterday after seeing the specs on the new Blackmagic 4K pocket.
    For less Image Critical shoots I'll just stick with my GH4 until the new Pockets ship.
    Plus I'll be getting TWO of them for the price I just paid for that GH5s.
    Ouch.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lpowell View Post
    I still use my hacked GH2 for 1080p fast-action shots
    I understand your point. I found the GH4's image inferior to the GH2's hacked Moon T7 image under fast motion.

    I found the Blackmagic Pocket's image superior to both.


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    Quote Originally Posted by DPStewart View Post
    I got a GH5s ten days ago but just returned it yesterday after seeing the specs on the new Blackmagic 4K pocket.
    Well, a living dog is better than a dead lion.

    The new pocket camera is about half a year away, if BM delivers on time.
    But half a year from now there may be some other new product on the horizon that beats that one.


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    The 5 inch screen is really a phenomenal idea.


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    Quote Originally Posted by sgttom View Post
    The 5 inch screen is really a phenomenal idea.
    Depending on the quality and brightness of the image.


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