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    #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Razz16mm View Post
    We've gone rounds on this before, but I disagree. Bayer spatial sampling interpolated to RGB color with high quality algorithms does not produce significantly lower resolution for red and blue channels. It is slightly less than what full discrete color channel sampling would be with a 3-chip camera, but you could not see the difference. Your eyes sample color in the same ratios as a Bayer sensor. My Bolex can easily produce a high resolution 4:4:4 RGB color gamut well beyond current YUV sub sampled video standards. It far exceeds P3, BT.709, and Adobe RGB gamut. Resolution is determined by the full luminance resolution of the sensor, not the color filter pattern. There is no direct comparison to the 50% reduction in actual horizontal pixel resolution for 4:2:2 sub-sampled encoded video formats. The loss of resolution on encoded Bayer video cameras is due to low quality debayer algorithms necessary for real tiime high speed frame processing with limited available processor power.
    I think there might be something to your argument. Arri has provided UHD 4:4:4 on the Alexa Mini for some time and I have never heard anyone complain about it being a waste of space even though the sensor is only 2.8K.

    If it’s technically possible and advantageous, I would always prefer a 4:4:4 debayered file for the same reason I would prefer the option to record a 12 bit RAW image. That extra headroom is likely to save a shot one day so I’m willing to pay for the extra drive space.


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    #22
    Senior Member Thomas Smet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wschmid View Post
    Panasonic has to be blamed for that because the promised 5.7K raw. They never stated that it will be for the Macs only. And you did not purchase the EVA1 from Atomos - and Atomos promised only a support for the EVA1. In other words - your business partner are Panasonic and their dealers here who promissed something.

    That is a case of business ethics, even if you do not like that as EVA1 fans. But that does not change the facts. And that after the LCD that becomes a mirror in sunshine and the great mechanical design of the handgrip.

    If Resolve 15 will support ProRes RAW will be known tomorrow hopefully. If yes then the additional costs will only be another license for Resolve 15. if no the issue is even worser.
    No they don't have to be blamed. Panasonic delivered exactly what they promised to deliver. Uncompressed raw output. The EVA1 still does that. It is up to you to find a solution that can record that raw format. The Atomos is one single 3rd party product that worked with Apple for a raw solution that made sense for post production. If that doesn't work for you then go find another recording product. The EVA1 still outputs raw as promised. You need to go find a tool to handle that just like I needed to find a recorder to get 10bit out of a GH4 externally.


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    #23
    Mod v2.0 Noel Evans's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thomas Smet View Post
    No they don't have to be blamed. Panasonic delivered exactly what they promised to deliver. Uncompressed raw output. The EVA1 still does that. It is up to you to find a solution that can record that raw format. The Atomos is one single 3rd party product that worked with Apple for a raw solution that made sense for post production. If that doesn't work for you then go find another recording product. The EVA1 still outputs raw as promised. You need to go find a tool to handle that just like I needed to find a recorder to get 10bit out of a GH4 externally.
    Completely agreed. Panasonic has said all along that they will deliver raw. They said they were working with third parties. Its no different to the way Sony / Canon or any other company does this. Company A delivers raw. Company B gives you a way to capture it. In this case company A has delivered raw. There's really not much else to that story.

    Atomos has no way to deliver 5.7k raw uncompressed on any existing products. Most people were aware of that, myself included. It was my belief that the answer would come from CD. It was also my belief that with All I on the EVA1 there were probably few circumstances where I would bother with raw, opting instead to just shoot on the LT. That scenario has now changed entirely for me and probably the same for anyone owning one of the cameras ATOMOS will support prores raw recording for. Shooting 5.7k raw was not the reason I bought the EVA1 in the first place.

    How good is prores raw? We can all guess, but no one really knows at this point.

    I think it's just a matter of (short) time before prores raw is rolled out across NLS's. I think it's just a matter of time before we see CD weigh in.
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    #24
    Senior Member wschmid's Avatar
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    @ Mr Asket, do not agree with you. And for sure it is not up anybody here to say that I should find another recorder. And it is also not up to me to find a solution - that has to be offered by the industry man. If you purchase a car, is it up to you to build a refinery to refine your own gasoline??
    Kind regards,

    Wolfgang


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    #25
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    Panasonic does not make any raw recorders, and will not. Not even for the top of the line; they rely.on external third party raw recorders.

    If you want to record raw from an EVA1 you're going to have to get an external third party recorder.

    It is possible that the Atomos lineup will already record 4k and 2k raw into CinemaDNG formats; I will have to verify with Atomos. And if so, it is perhaps possible that they could add support for 5.7k CDNG when they add the 5.7k ProRes Raw support.


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    #26
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    Even though Panasonic doesn't make any raw recorders, it would be nice to add ProRes raw recording to the VariCam LT, if it's possible. I would pay for such an upgrade.

    I don't know what is limiting the frame rates when using the O7Q, but if it's the size of the DNG-files and not the output/input from the SDI connectors, maybe the Varicam LT and the O7Q could be made to record even higher framrates in both 4K and 2K?


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    #27
    Mod v2.0 Noel Evans's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Barry_Green View Post

    It is possible that the Atomos lineup will already record 4k and 2k raw into CinemaDNG formats; I will have to verify with Atomos. And if so, it is perhaps possible that they could add support for 5.7k CDNG when they add the 5.7k ProRes Raw support.
    Confirmed working. Shot for 30 mins on cinemaDNG test. All good.
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    #28
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    Ok, so EVA1 supports RAW on Atomos via CinemaDNG in 2k/4k, and for 5.7k, currently only ProRes RAW. Correct?

    And FWIW I'll be shocked in adobe / windows PC doesn't have prores RAW read-only support by fall.


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    #29
    Mod v2.0 Noel Evans's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by filmguy123 View Post
    Ok, so EVA1 supports RAW on Atomos via CinemaDNG in 2k/4k, and for 5.7k, currently only ProRes RAW. Correct?
    That is correct.
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    #30
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    Atomos supports it in 4k up to 30p right now, yes.


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