Thread: FS700 in 2018?

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    FS700 in 2018?
    #1
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    New year, new opportunities. It looks like I will have very busy year with new big projects. So, camera geek in my head is happy and I have started wasting my time looking on web for an upgrade. So far I was using FS700 paired with Inferno and a7s on gimbal. My biggest complain about kit are Sony colors and power hungry/heavy FS700+Inferno combo and finally missing option to have nice HD footage (Inferno does not have SS like 7Q+).

    Obvious options are FS7, C200, EVA1, UMP, "maybe used RED?". But basically every one of those expensive babies has worse specs in terms of frame rates and my clients love slomo.

    So, I am trying to stay logical and keep FS700 for another year and start using Inferno on every shot. As I mentioned I am little bit unhappy with weight and practicality of the kit since Inferno is really power hungry. Question is, is there any way how to power FS700 and Inferno from one battery? I shoot 90% handheld so V-mount is kind of weird for me too.

    Any advice appreciated!

    PS: I was shooting with this setup 2 days handheld and now I think it was bootcamp, not filming ).
    IMG_3417.jpg


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    I've been having the same thoughts. But in the end I can never really justify any other camera. If you want something "better" you'd really have to go with Red or Arri. It seems to me that Sony made a camera that's too good! Of course that all due to the Odyssey 7Q+ that made the FS700 a real pro camera and gave it a completely new life.

    I've had the FS700 for almost six years now and it's still rocking, never had a fault. I've shot a feature, dozens of shorts, music videos, commercials and much more, It runs with two cheap Swit batteries that still last all day and everything fits in one Pelican case. Best gear purchase I've ever done. That and my Bolex 16mm are the only gear that have never given up on me.

    It sure is heavy but then again, if you go with Red or Arri you'd be looking at bigger heavier batteries, much more expensive SSD's, probably no ND's and not as good slow mo... On top of that for me the new workflow demands would probably necessitate a new computer. I'm still happy editing with my 2012 iMac.

    I'm going to work with this setup a year or two until I get something that adds manageable RAW recording, internal ND's, global shutter and a tad more latitude.
    BMPCC4K, Sony FS700 with O7Q+, Bolex 16mm, Canon 1014XL-S super8.

    Visit my site: www.samisanpakkila.com


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    Here are some of my opinions...(I could breakdown any camera in the world, but these are just random thoughts based on your notes):

    REDs are the best cinema cameras in the world for slow-motion in high-resolutions (besides dedicated slow-motion cameras for crazy HFRs). The DSMC2 bodies and modules play nicely together and you can build a configuration that's not too big, but it depends on how you shoot and with what...a big 70-200mm will make any setup bigger!

    Blackmagic is next on the list for the best slow-motion (excluding ARRI because of no native 4K, which I'm assuming you'd like). Trust these people...they just know how to do it well. 4K/60p is beautiful in all of their 4K cameras (if you of course get a non-problematic one from quality control). The 4K URSA V2 shoots really nice 4K/120p. It's heavy (25lbs+ with accessories), but you definitely won't need a monitor hanging off the rig anymore. A power-hungry camera. Another note; BM has some of the best HD in the world too. Absolutely stunning, super-sampled ProRes 444XQ off their high-resolution sensors (i.e UMP). Another note; a new BM camera was announced today, which is pretty much a broadcast version of the S35 UMP. It has many of the same features but sports a smaller sensor and ships with a B4 mount (interchangeable). DR is 12 stops, which may be similar to the FS700.

    If you're keeping the Atomos and maybe would like to just lose a little weight, the FS5 could be an option...but Sony colors again. I spent some time with the FS5/Atomos and really liked the CDNGs from it. I think it can even do 4K/120p and 2K/240p now! I would buy the FS5 over the FS7 if I was shooting CDNGs to the Inferno.

    Canon has terrible HFRs (120p+). C200's 4K/60p RAW is nice and it's an amazing gimbal camera with the best AF system in the world.

    EVA1 looks like it holds its own in the 4K/60p department, and I'm very interested to see how the RAW works out, which could end up being supported by your Atomos. Small camera.

    ---

    Per usual nothing is ever perfect and the budget is the biggest question.

    I'm not going to mention any names, but there are many, many cameras that are overpriced and overrated. With talent and a consideration for everything else that is a part of production and post-production, the FS700 combo you have now can run with the best of them.


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    I'm pretty much at the same point. The camera geek in me really wants to upgrade.
    But the businessman in me is glad that I can stay with the FS700. Any other
    option for me, really doesn't make sense. So I too am going to wait....maybe
    NAB will see something new introduced. It kind of shows that the FS700 was
    almost 'over engineered' to the point that it can stand alongside much newer
    cameras. I think Sony almost made a mistake and put more potential then
    they 'should have' in the FS700 (more than they should have from the point
    of view of Sony who wants people to go upgrade to the newer cameras because
    of how much better they are over the old ones.)


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    At the time, the FS700 was made as a "future-proof" camera, but no one really knew how that would pan out.

    I'm guessing corporate/the engineers at Convergent-Design saw the potential in making the camera more powerful in order to sell more of their own products. (I don't know the exact history of events but Sony and Canon were both heading in the same direction with an HD camera/4K output.)

    And I think if it wasn't for the 7Q then the only other option would have been some sort of Sony interface/recorder combo because Atomos probably wouldn't have bothered if CD didn't do anything. And I'm not sure how many people would have used Sony's option and the camera's 4K future could have had a much different outcome.

    ---

    I also would like to add that I think it's a powerful camera today only with its 4K output because without it it's a potato by 2018 standards.
    Last edited by NorBro; 02-01-2018 at 07:15 PM.


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    EVA1, Easyrig MiniMax.

    Your biggest complaints were power and sony colors. And weight, with the Inferno. Few thoughts:

    - EVA1 internal codec negates the need for Interno in many scenarios. When it does not, the EVA1 is so lightweight, adding an inferno will be ok (vs say an FS7, which gets hheeaavvy) for handheld.
    - EVA1 has killer color science. So does the canon. It costs more, and weighs more.
    - EVA1 biggest downside is the bummer LCD. But you're using Inferno. And the LCD is no worse than FS700 per my knowledge. Plus, you can do a Small HD focus if you needed.
    - EasyRig - if you do a lot of handheld, check out the Minimax. I just got one and I'm in love, I'm in love, and I don't care who knows it
    - Power - EVA1 has good power management. And they have new batteries just released which provided d-tap, too.
    - Power - check out the gripper GR-75 batteries if you say v-mount is too much weight. How about a smaller battery with no need for any mounting plates? Pop on some 4" carbon fiber rods from smallrig and boom.

    Oh. And the FS700 with external recorder is still good. You could probably swing another year if needed/wanted. Then again, resale value of FS700 might be less in a year. So... hmm.

    Other thoughts:

    - EVA1 doesn't match A7S color. GH5s?
    - FS7 is heavy. FS5 + Atomos?
    - Sony has a new FF cinema camera coming this year, supposedly, and an A7S III... maybe?!
    - E-mount is cool.

    Good luck sir.


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    Thanks for replies!

    Yeah, filmguy, easyrig is one option too. Thanks for the tip.

    I am not in hurry, so I will definetly go to the store or rent some cameras to try them. EVA1 looks very good, but I have a feeling that it is overpriced (it is priced pretty much the same as C200 where do I live). No 4k60p 10bit, 240 cropped and when quality compared to Sony slomos..

    As filmguy mentioned, E mount is cool. After using metabones (speedboosted and nonspeedboosted) I find EF mount limiting. The most used lenses on my FS700 are Tamron 15-30 2.8 and Canon 24-105, both paired with speedbooster. They are basically no such lenses for EF S35.

    The most logical way would be wait till NAB. I hope I can make it )


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    Everything is over priced in our field ;)

    NAB may be very interesting and bring not just a new camera option, but interesting support tools. Such as a recorder with no screen, negating a negative of the EVA1 perhaps. Then again, you’re not waiting till NAB, you’re waiting till ship date, and I didn’t get my aputure 300d until December 2017... so... NAB for me has been the time to pre plan end of year tax write offs, not plan my summer gear. Occasional exceptions.

    EVA1 big benefit is weight. 240fps crop, who cares? You have wide zooms. It’s still some of the best. And it’s light. FS7 4K 60p internal is nice but then again it still weighs more than EVA1 + shogun... and then you’ll want a screen again anyway!

    But if you like e mount there’s no reason to leave Sony. Maybe it’s not this year but I can’t imagine there won’t be a FS5 mk II or similar sometime soon to answer the EVA1. And Sony color science, when recording external, can be corrected well. Don’t use Sony personally but I can’t imagine there aren’t some decent preset LUTs to give a good baseline.

    Ideal? No. But the name of the game is choosing your compromises.


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    The FS700 will do me just fine for this year, I think. Here's a frame grab from a shoot yesterday. Inside a cave, underneath a waterfall, on a rainy day, no lights or modifiers (wish I'd had a bit of bounce, but no budget for an assistant!).

    Laura_01.jpg

    Any time I think about upgrading I realise there is really not many other options out there that can do everything the FS700/RAW combo can, without paying a lot more money. EVA-1 looks like it will finally bring some competition to the FS7, and the URSA Mini Pro added the internal ND's which are a must-have for me, but also raises the price almost to EVA-1/C200/FS7 territory once you add a viewfinder and C-fast cards.

    But that's about it for cameras that shoot 10-bit, 4K, & slow-mo, while also having ND's & XLR.

    I do wonder when the next FS5 might appear - if it came around soon and included all the current firmware upgrades, plus 10-bit 4K (even just a 24/25), it would probably be enough to persuade me. But I'd keep the Inferno around for those jobs that still required 240p or 4K slow-mo. Other than that, I'll happily ride out 2018 on my FS700 + Inferno!
    VIDEO PRODUCER ON THE NSW NORTH COAST, AUSTRALIA
    Sony FS700 || Shogun Inferno
    Adobe CC 2018


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    I'm having this exact debate now. I've realized that the reason I'm wanting to upgrade at all is for form factor reasons. I work almost exclusively with Angenieux Optimo Styles which makes for quite a long camera on the FS700. For sticks, dana dolly, shoulder, it's fine but I've long wanted to be able to use on my gimbal without renting a C500, etc. Also would be much easier to carry around as a tripod/shoulder package in general. I do think the EVA1 image is an improvement on the FS700/Odyssey 7Q 4K/2K ProRes (and it will get even better 1st half of this year) so I'm finally thinking I'll make the jump though I'll still be hanging onto the FS700, IMO it's resale value is nowhere close to it's value as a fully paid off B-cam.

    That said, for the bread and butter jobs I do, no one really asks about the camera I'm going to use so it's tough to make an expensive change when it really won't make a difference to the client. I'm curious to see how the EVA1 is treated in the doc style market where the FS7, C300ii and Amira are the main players.


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