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    #11
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    morgan_moore:

    I agree that I wince at the idea of not using the Rayzr. I want to at least use that. If I can figure out a safe, easy way to get the china ball going, I like the idea of the ambient light (time really is a concern), but unless I can figure that out, I think I'll probably go with two more tungstens, color corrected. The script calls for another table, in that solarium (behind the glass doors) to have other people sitting there... populating the "restaurant". If I have it blacked out with lights for "mock depth", then the room pretty much becomes unusable as far as the story is concerned.

    What do you think of my idea of getting the wider shots I want when the light is actually right, and then try to mimick the light for the tighter shots that don't need to show that solarium, or the window, which we'd have more time for? It's involving moving stuff around mid-shoot, it might not be easy to match the natural light, and the window for getting those wider shots probably would be not very long... it'd probably feel like a 30 minute magic hour shoot, but it's possible, no?


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    #12
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    I cant really say more because DP is knowing the score on the ground and making safe and instant choices with the tools you have.

    Simply I keep it safe with a big soft source on the subject in the main.

    Magic hour.. yep that is great until your sched goes awry.

    I shot a day dinner scene once.. basically two OTS shots and then food continuity slowed things so much It was actually dark for the second character - at least I did the one with the window in shot first!


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    #13
    Senior Member David W. Jones's Avatar
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    I own a lighting and grip truck. If I didn't and were in your position with limited lighting instruments, I would write a curtain pull into the script. "pull the shades so we can get to eating James" That way you don't have to deal with outside daylight issues. I would gel your daylight LED to match your Tungsten lighting and shoot 3200K. Maybe it's just me, but I almost expect to see Tungsten style lighting and candle sticks in a 100 plus year old mansion.

    Dave


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    #14
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    I expect to see a yellow background - aka shoot 5500k, and gel the tungs up with 1/4 or half ctb - they will still be yellow - if you shoot 3200 the tungs wont be yellow and any daylight ingress will just look horrid.


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    #15
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    A large room with several characters in six hours won't leave you with many takes. Might have to do a quick wide pan and just stick with the CU's after that. This is a scene that needs a lot of rehearsal time regardless of the lighting issues. Maybe you can get the reaction shots somewhere else. Or something,


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    #16
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    morgan_moore:
    Yep, we'd have about two tries at it, but I agree, we'd be limited. Maybe it's not THAT tight a window, but certainly under an hour. Why do I do this to myself? Question... the diffusion panel... is there a reason I'd want to go for that rather than just clipping a diffusion gel to the barn doors? The LED fresnel can give me a beam about... I think 56 degrees wide on its own?

    David W. Jones:
    The curtain pull is an interesting idea and easy to work into the script. I'm not sure if that's a complete solution though, as there's plenty of light spill to worry about other than just the window. Some of it will need to be controlled.

    DLD: Well, 6 hours for three days, although one day is reserved for the kitchen scene (without windows), so it's two days. Hopefully after the first day, we'll know exactly what to do for the second day. I'm predicting about 9.5 to 10 hours total of shoot time, assuming the first time we're filming within an hour, and the second time it's within half an hour. And if I keep it to maybe 30-40 shots max? Ambitious but not impossible. I have my rehearsal scheduled.


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    #17
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    30-40 shots? In a total of 18 hours of shooting? With 3x load in / load outs? There is no way. That's just crazy talk.
    No offense, but have you ever shot a scene with such complications before? It sounds incredibly ambitious given your constraints. Most shooting you're lucky to spend an hour each on load in / load out, then 30 min. per shot if all is moving smoothly and simply. 6x loads in/out leaves 12 hours of shooting, so 24 shots. Realistically, and that's if everything goes smoothly.
    Mitch Gross
    NYC


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    #18
    Senior Member abreu-canedo's Avatar
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    sdanzig,

    Do you have access to do a pre-shoot/tech-scout on location. Even if you're not setting up any lights, you get a sense of what will be necessary to get the shots you want.

    It seems as if you are under-powered, depending on the look you want.

    What ratio are you hoping to achieve between your key, fill and background?

    Gelling your tungstens will make them less usable as soft sources...as you know. And simply adding diffusion to barn-doors will not create a softer source. Diffusion and softness are not the same thing.

    It is a very difficult thing for anyone to answer in a forum.

    As a vague approach, I'd try to use the window as motivation for lights (assuming Day Int). I'd hang shears on the windows to allow you to clip in a more interesting way...assuming you don't have the light power to compete. To deal with light changes, I'd flag outside the window, and put all your tungsten units pushing in through the window. The shears should be enough to diffuse and make it a larger source. If you can't afford to gel the tungsten to 4300K (due to light loss), then leave them at 3200K and commit to a sunset look. Set your camera to 4300K to retain some of the warmth of the tungstens outside the window blasting in. This "through the window" approach can fall on faces as a side light on your CUs two shots, and can also be "up-stage" when shooting into it. You can also shape the tungsten throw to add textured shapes onto your background if desired. Then you can use your LED at 4300K through a 4x4 diffusion, to be your top light out of frame above the table, for your wide (allowing it to bounce off the table, while keeping it from spilling onto your walls. Then you can use the LED as eiter a key light or fill light on your CUs and two-shots, depending on what levels you are getting from the tungsten units outside.

    This is just one approach out of many, and it is not necessarily perfect. In any case, I hope it is at all helpful, and best of luck!


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    #19
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    A diffusion panel is not to make the angle of the source wider it is to make the source larger (the diff panel is the source)

    Id get a 4.4 or ideally a 6 or 8.4 panel - I use lastolight, california sunbounce and a homebuild with lee filter on (the latter being the best but most fragile)

    Probably the light would be about 3 foot back from the panel

    maybe google film making, shower curtain

    S


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    #20
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    Mitch:
    Well, I think 30 is probably about the max... you're right that 40 is crazy talk, but I've definitely managed 20 minutes per shot when I had a fleshed out plan and worked with rehearsed actors. I did some metrics to verify this I might float the idea of getting another day though if I need it, and I'm thinking through ways to maybe trim down the shots needed.

    abreu-canedo:
    I did do a promo shoot in this mansion with my Rayzr 7... not necessarily in the dining room specifically, but the larger foyer area with sprawling staircase outside. I really did have to dim down the Rayzr a lot to not be overexposed. I know I lose some light with the diffusion I'd need, and maybe bouncing, but it really does seem like it can handle lighting that room. Maybe not as brightly as the window can do, but certainly enough for the a7sii. I'm not sure about the specific ratio I'd be looking for, but it doesn't have to be dramatic. Just a soft light coming in from the window that shows off the woodwork would be nice, with enough ambient light to see the actor's faces easily.

    morgan_moore:
    Now I understand what the purpose is. I'll have to see if I can find a quick way to set up a shower curtain. Maybe two PA's?


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