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    #61
    Senior Member Eric Coughlin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DLD View Post
    But look at the timeline. Then project technology forward. 8-bit 4:2:0 was good enough yesterday. 10-bit 4:2:2 is good enough today. Compressed Raw might/should become the standard tomorrow.
    Tomorrow as in years from now. Red has had compressed RAW for awhile, with even lower data rates than the C200's RAW lite. I don't see broadcast (or a lot of mid range projects) using RAW hardly ever.

    Buy a camera for today, I say, not for tomorrow, because tomorrow you'll want/need a new camera anyway.


    Consider the Samsung NX-1. At first people were like, "H.265, cool. Extra efficient codec. Nice. Oh, wait, nothing can edit this. I need to convert it to a less efficient code. Now I'm back to square one, but needing to do more work in post. What was Samsung thinking? Why did they release a camera with only a future codec?" They released a camera for tomorrow, in today's world, and that didn't go so well. If the Samsung NX-1 also had an H.264 codec, then even though that's an inferior codec, the camera would have sold better on release since more people could currently use that codec, just like the C200 would sell better if it also had the AVC codec, which it will eventually get, in 8 bit.
    Last edited by Eric Coughlin; 06-19-2017 at 01:01 PM.


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    #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eric Coughlin View Post
    Tomorrow as in years from now. Red has had compressed RAW for awhile, with even lower data rates than the C200's RAW lite. I don't see broadcast (or a lot of mid range projects) using RAW hardly ever...
    Ya but, if they shoot ProRes 444 on Alexa, it's just about the same thing.


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    #63
    Senior Member Eric Coughlin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DLD View Post
    Ya but, if they shoot ProRes 444 on Alexa, it's just about the same thing.
    Except ProRes doesn't requires transcoding in post like RAW often does, which is a big difference.


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    Depends on your software. If you're cutting CinemaDNG in Resolve or REDCODE RAW in FCPX, it's like working with ProRes.

    RAW is definitely the future...just not there yet.


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    #65
    Senior Member Eric Coughlin's Avatar
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    As far as I'm aware ProRes works smoothly with most computers and software with no need for transcoding, while the same can't be said for RAW. If you're handing off footage to a wide variety of clients with a wide variety of computers and software programs, ProRes is generally preferred, hence the popularity of that codec.

    I'm sure there are computers and editing setups that handle RAW fine, but you can't assume all of your clients will have that setup unless you always edit the footage you shoot.


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    Eric, image specs aside, how do you rate the c200's physical attributes?

    Would you use an easyrig for handheld or go with a shoulder mount?


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    Senior Member Tim Nitsch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by klk View Post
    what's the point of the direction of this thread?
    Lol I was just trying to give people my impressions on the C200's physical features vs what's everyone has been taking about, but then it went somewhere else entirely.
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    #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eric Coughlin View Post
    As far as I'm aware ProRes works smoothly with most computers and software with no need for transcoding, while the same can't be said for RAW. If you're handing off footage to a wide variety of clients with a wide variety of computers and software programs, ProRes is generally preferred, hence the popularity of that codec.

    I'm sure there are computers and editing setups that handle RAW fine, but you can't assume all of your clients will have that setup unless you always edit the footage you shoot.
    I hear you...but you're talking about the present time and I'm talking about the future.

    People were once concerned with editing 4K and now many entry level computers can handle it. All NLEs have grown to adapt and support.

    Per usual, technology will continue to get better and it will make no sense to shoot anything else but RAW motion pictures.

    I'm not saying this will happen next year and I don't see ProRes going away anytime soon, but there will be a time when there isn't any hesitation to shoot and edit RAW, and it will easily be accepted and supported by everyone just how ProRes is now.


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    Senior Member Eric Coughlin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rob norton View Post
    Eric, image specs aside, how do you rate the c200's physical attributes?

    Would you use an easyrig for handheld or go with a shoulder mount?
    I think the ergonomics are quite nice. The built in XLRs make me wish my C300s had that, though how they stick out of the back of the camera may be a bit awkward, as noted elsewhere. But that smaller and lighter weight LCD setup (since it's not tethered to XLRs) is quite nice. One of my beefs with the C300 is how cumbersome it is to continually move around the LCD depending on the shot, and this should help alleviate that issue. Though, I feel like I'd need a hands-on to see just how adjustable that LCD setup is.

    If the LCD setup is made compatible with the C300 Mark II I'd likely get it, which I'd then also need the C300 Mark II audio control module, and would need to figure out where each would go, which could be a pain. One of my C300 monitors is also loosening up which is annoying.

    One thing I was hoping for was a B-camera for my C300s that shot 4K, but was smaller and lighter so I could use it with my Glidecam handheld; the 1DX Mark II has been one option, but with no built in ND filters that makes it a tough option. The C300 Mark II is a bit too heavy to use handheld with the Glidecam, so I have to break out my Steadicam Zephyr which takes considerably longer to setup and doesn't really work for run n gun shooting. So, I was disappointed that the C200 is a fair bit heavier than a C100 Mark II, which was also heavier than the C100 Mark I. It is still lighter than a C300 Mark II, so perhaps it'd be light enough to use on a Glidecam, but certainly on the heavy side. But perhaps the C100 Mark III is really what I was waiting for.

    I'd imagine the C200 LCD is a good amount lighter than the C300 Mark II LCD/Audio piece, so if I could use that C200 monitor on the C300 Mark II that may make it light enough for Glidecam use as well. I've thought of getting a SmallHD 502 for that purpose but haven't done so, as I find needing to use separate batteries, cables, lack of integration, etc., for external monitors is a pain.


    Depends on how heavy you rig it out to be. Once you get past 20-25 lbs an Easy Rig certainly helps you from killing yourself on a long shoot. To me it's more about look, though. Easy Rig has a different look than shoulder mounted, with shoulder being a courser and more documentary look, and Easy Rig being a more floating type of look, so it depends on the look you want. I will say as others have said, Easy Rig is generally not the right tool for walking shots, as you get pendulum effect; if you want course walking shots, shoulder mount it, if you want smooth walking shots, Steadicam (or gimbal, maybe).

    If I'm just doing event, ENG, doc, run n gun, etc., I'd probably skip the Easy Rig and either handhold it in front of me putting the viewfinder to my eye like I often do with the C100 Mark II (but not with the C300 Mark II much because it's a bit heavy for that), in a pinch put it on my shoulder without a shoulder rig since the LCD can placed in a viewable area (unlike a C100), and if I'm going to be doing a lot of shoulder work (as opposed to quick b-roll shots), rig it up with a shoulder rig. Easy Rig I use more for commercial and narrative work.


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    #70
    Senior Member Eric Coughlin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NorBro View Post
    I hear you...but you're talking about the present time and I'm talking about the future.

    People were once concerned with editing 4K and now many entry level computers can handle it. All NLEs have grown to adapt and support.

    Per usual, technology will continue to get better and it will make no sense to shoot anything else but RAW motion pictures.

    I'm not saying this will happen next year and I don't see ProRes going away anytime soon, but there will be a time when there isn't any hesitation to shoot and edit RAW, and it will easily be accepted and supported by everyone just how ProRes is now.
    Right, I agree with RAW being the norm in the future. But it is not this day.

    I'm talking about the present time because the C200 came out now, and that's what people are considering buying now. If it takes five more years say for RAW to become the norm for delivery and editing even on low end and mid range shoots, and people buy the C200 now, expecting their clients to accept RAW delivery, which their clients don't end up accepting until five years from now...and then in five years you've still got this supposedly future proof C200 camera, which has RAW, and now clients are accepting RAW, but they don't want that outdated C200 which can't shoot f/16 at night due to it's poor low light, doesn't have auto high speed five minute wireless data transferring capabilities, has poor highlight rolloff, no 16 bit raw, limited frame rates, etc., compared to the $10k camera setups available in 2022.

    Perhaps some people who primarily do commercial and narrative work already have a client base ready and willing to accept RAW, but I'd imagine the average person upgrading from a C100, that their client base is mostly people who still don't want RAW.




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