Thread: Varicam Mini ?

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    #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doctor Wu View Post
    Knowing something about the internal turmoil of what's been going on at Panasonic with their Varicams and managers of that product, I really do hope they get their act together and produce a camera for that now vital "under 10K" segment of the market, or better market / price the LT. The LT does produce a very fine image. It would be nice if it had a locking EF mount option.
    Well Doctor Wu
    I'd suggest you get your hand on an LT and actually use it. THE EF mount is a Locking EF mount and has always been. Works much like a PL mount only the other "Locking" Ef mounts. You do not need to turn the Lens you lock the mount
    KIT:
    Panasonic Varicam LT, Kinemax 6k, Panasonic Lumix GH5, Panasonic Lumix GH4 & YAGH.
    Lomo 25-250mm T3.2, Lomo Foton 37-140, LOMO primes 22mm, 35mm, 50mm, 75mm Zeiss CP1 18mm,25mm,35mm,50mm,85mm, 100mm, Nikon Ais Primes, Assorted Vintage Russian Primes (Helios 44, Jupiter 9, MIR-1A, Tair 11A,Super Albinar)
    Letus Anamorh-X pro 1.33x and 2x anamorphic adapters
    "I had a dream I could buy my way to heaven, when I awoke spent that on Anamorphic Lenses"


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    #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by DLD View Post
    However, there's always some overlap. One could, for example, find an essentially the same camera with the various sensor sizes or with different feature sets, something that Canon did (more or less) with the original C100 and C300 and BMD did with the URSA line, etc. And then this becomes a combined engineering and managerial decision.

    Now, where are those Panasonic financials?
    Well now that Panasonic is back in the sensor making business I think A new sensor has probably in the works for a few years. I think the SONY approach F5, FS7 & FS5 (although as a former F5 owner the trend of cannibalizing and devaluing a camera I paid $20k for didn't leave me extremely pleased.

    To the argument someone made about all the other competition in the sub $10k price point, I'd say this, which one of those are delivering the Varicam Image? Varicam DR?... NONE
    People are settling for a lot of these cameras...I'm included in the list of people who were forced to settle until the varicam LT was announced and I put my money down for it and got rid of everything else.

    YES I love P2 media it's never failed me since the HVX... but times change and in the Sub $10k price point people are less willing to put down $ for proprietary media. Manufactures have to adapt to that in that price point. Over $15k you should get what you pay for and that s bullet proof media and expect to pay for it P2, SXS, Codex capture drives.

    Now back to the camera: There are 3 mainstream cameras delivering the best images (and this is my opinion so lets not turn it to a debate) The Panasonic Varicams, The ARRI cameras, the Sony F65.

    So my argument is if there is a sub $10k (or lets say sub $7500, if we're talking fs5 size) that checks all the boxes the sony FS5 does and delivers Panasonic HFR and the varicam Image and dual ISO, Will it sell... I think most would agree YES!

    now to address Barry Greens point: I think faced with Panasonic Engineering & reliability versus say the URSA (with the well documented list of issues that stem from the sensor) I think most would put their money into the the Panasonic.

    Just one thing, with technology time is of the essence... the current requested feature set, is good for 2017... If I'm being honest It might change in 2 weeks at NAB
    KIT:
    Panasonic Varicam LT, Kinemax 6k, Panasonic Lumix GH5, Panasonic Lumix GH4 & YAGH.
    Lomo 25-250mm T3.2, Lomo Foton 37-140, LOMO primes 22mm, 35mm, 50mm, 75mm Zeiss CP1 18mm,25mm,35mm,50mm,85mm, 100mm, Nikon Ais Primes, Assorted Vintage Russian Primes (Helios 44, Jupiter 9, MIR-1A, Tair 11A,Super Albinar)
    Letus Anamorh-X pro 1.33x and 2x anamorphic adapters
    "I had a dream I could buy my way to heaven, when I awoke spent that on Anamorphic Lenses"


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    #23
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    When I mentioned that my guess would be a smaller LT, I wasn't thinking FS5 sized, I was thinking of something slightly larger than a "common" action camera with the same sensor as the LT and some kind of lens mount. Slightly smaller than an FS5, maybe no viewfinder at all, just an SDI connection(s). Something you could throw on a multicopter, or suction cup mount to the side of a car or motorcycle, etc. Something akin to a Canon ME200F-SH in size and all the LT goodness packed inside.


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    #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Greg_E View Post
    When I mentioned that my guess would be a smaller LT, I wasn't thinking FS5 sized, I was thinking of something slightly larger than a "common" action camera with the same sensor as the LT and some kind of lens mount. Slightly smaller than an FS5, maybe no viewfinder at all, just an SDI connection(s). Something you could throw on a multicopter, or suction cup mount to the side of a car or motorcycle, etc. Something akin to a Canon ME200F-SH in size and all the LT goodness packed inside.
    I think a box cam would indeed be a really niche product, the Sony UMC-S3C and Canon ME200F-SH aren't exactly everywhere or flying off the shelves. C-100s and Fs5's are everywhere
    KIT:
    Panasonic Varicam LT, Kinemax 6k, Panasonic Lumix GH5, Panasonic Lumix GH4 & YAGH.
    Lomo 25-250mm T3.2, Lomo Foton 37-140, LOMO primes 22mm, 35mm, 50mm, 75mm Zeiss CP1 18mm,25mm,35mm,50mm,85mm, 100mm, Nikon Ais Primes, Assorted Vintage Russian Primes (Helios 44, Jupiter 9, MIR-1A, Tair 11A,Super Albinar)
    Letus Anamorh-X pro 1.33x and 2x anamorphic adapters
    "I had a dream I could buy my way to heaven, when I awoke spent that on Anamorphic Lenses"


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    #25
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    I'm glad y'all are so interested in Panasonic financials. On the Board are we? I remember when I was at Convergent Design and because a firmware update was late someone wrote me demanding to see the financial sheet of the company because he felt we weren't running the place well. Entitled much?

    Anyway, I do like this conversation and wish to do nothing but encourage it. I don't want to quash anyone's ideas as it is interesting feedback & perspective. But I won't say what influence it does or does not have. Panasonic is a large worldwide company and we receive input from many sources. But all ideas are welcome.

    BTW, the locking EF lens mount on the VariCam LT is a thing of beauty. As Adam Wilt wrote in his review of the camera for Provideo Coalition, they should all be this way.
    Mitch Gross
    Cinema Product Manager
    Panasonic System Solutions Company


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    #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mitch Gross View Post
    I'm glad y'all are so interested in Panasonic financials. On the Board are we? ...
    Well, you knoooooow ... it's public information. (CD was privately held, i assume)

    http://www.panasonic.com/global/corp...c_ar2016_e.pdf

    https://www.google.com/finance?q=OTC...UcCIEojCqgHpdA


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    #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mitch Gross View Post
    I'm glad y'all are so interested in Panasonic financials. On the Board are we? I remember when I was at Convergent Design and because a firmware update was late someone wrote me demanding to see the financial sheet of the company because he felt we weren't running the place well. Entitled much?

    Anyway, I do like this conversation and wish to do nothing but encourage it. I don't want to quash anyone's ideas as it is interesting feedback & perspective. But I won't say what influence it does or does not have. Panasonic is a large worldwide company and we receive input from many sources. But all ideas are welcome.

    BTW, the locking EF lens mount on the VariCam LT is a thing of beauty. As Adam Wilt wrote in his review of the camera for Provideo Coalition, they should all be this way.
    HAHA...Mitch you of all people know that online anyone with a keyboard is an expert (on everything including a multinational corporations financials)...Not sure how this got to Panny financials. Which are of no interest to me as long as they're making Great Cameras Like the PURE and Varicam LT.

    I think Everyone who owns an LT or is considering one should certainly read Adam Wilts article. It's one of the most objective professional reviews yet

    http://www.dvinfo.net/article/acquis...ne-camera.html

    https://www.provideocoalition.com/pa...review-part-2/

    thoroughly addresses the Most important part of any Digital cinema camera: The image

    I think the idea of this thread or at least my portion of it is that people would like to see that Varicam LT goodness in a more widely accessible camera (translation cheaper and doesn't use Professional recording media).
    The conversation on that topic is great, I think the financials are best left to the accountants...this is DVXuser not the financial times forum

    Cheers
    KIT:
    Panasonic Varicam LT, Kinemax 6k, Panasonic Lumix GH5, Panasonic Lumix GH4 & YAGH.
    Lomo 25-250mm T3.2, Lomo Foton 37-140, LOMO primes 22mm, 35mm, 50mm, 75mm Zeiss CP1 18mm,25mm,35mm,50mm,85mm, 100mm, Nikon Ais Primes, Assorted Vintage Russian Primes (Helios 44, Jupiter 9, MIR-1A, Tair 11A,Super Albinar)
    Letus Anamorh-X pro 1.33x and 2x anamorphic adapters
    "I had a dream I could buy my way to heaven, when I awoke spent that on Anamorphic Lenses"


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    #28
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    I'm still waiting for Charles Papert to chime in and say "I thought the Varicam LT was the mini V35." =)

    I have two question.

    1) After kitting out this hypothetical cannibalized 'varicam mini' wouldn't it be around the same weight if not heavier than a LT? But with a stripped down operating system, fixed lens mount, no view finder, dodgy prosumer media, etc etc. And at the same time possibly devaluing the exclusivity and reputation of the flagship cameras?

    2) Could you use a GH5 for an action/crash/drone cam? I haven't used one yet, but I believe it records in some flavor of v-log and might even have similar color science.


    I'd love if Panasonic would introduce 4k 444 30fps AVC-Intra on the Varicam LT, and fine tune the rec.709 LUT (many agree it is a little warm).


    Great topic by the way.

    Cheers, TGIF!


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    #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by sean007davis View Post

    I think the idea of this thread or at least my portion of it is that people would like to see that Varicam LT goodness in a more widely accessible camera
    I completely agree. The bottom line is that the LT has an amazing image, one which is virtually unrivaled, and many people like myself are probably just hoping there might be some feasible way to put that into a slightly cheaper, slightly smaller package. (Personally, I don't really mind the P2 media because... reliable). I suppose time will tell if we are asking for too much.


    Quote Originally Posted by Alex Derrick View Post

    After kitting out this hypothetical cannibalized 'varicam mini' wouldn't it be around the same weight if not heavier than a LT? But with a stripped down operating system, fixed lens mount, no view finder, dodgy prosumer media, etc etc. And at the same time possibly devaluing the exclusivity and reputation of the flagship cameras?
    I think there could be a way to keep a Varicam Mini more slim and powerful, but without other 'Pro' features that are found on the LT. Namely, the Mini could be without the control panel, it could be without the proxy recording, it could trade the 4 channels of audio for 2 (and maybe even include some dedicated audio knobs!). The ability of the V35 and the LT to handle multiple video streams is impressive, but I have to imagine this takes a lot of processing power. What if the Mini did not have the ability to bake in custom LUTs, but only monitor them? I'm no engineer, but these all seem like ways to save weight.

    Again, time will tell... and I'll be waiting with crossed fingers.


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    #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alex Derrick View Post
    I'm still waiting for Charles Papert to chime in and say "I thought the Varicam LT was the mini V35." =)

    I have two question.

    1) After kitting out this hypothetical cannibalized 'varicam mini' wouldn't it be around the same weight if not heavier than a LT? But with a stripped down operating system, fixed lens mount, no view finder, dodgy prosumer media, etc etc. And at the same time possibly devaluing the exclusivity and reputation of the flagship cameras?

    2) Could you use a GH5 for an action/crash/drone cam? I haven't used one yet, but I believe it records in some flavor of v-log and might even have similar color science.


    I'd love if Panasonic would introduce 4k 444 30fps AVC-Intra on the Varicam LT, and fine tune the rec.709 LUT (many agree it is a little warm).


    Great topic by the way.

    Cheers, TGIF!
    I think if there's one thing Panny has been good at historically it isn't cannibalizing the brand. The LT and The 35 share a sensor but are very different cameras that co-exist without any issues.

    The branding tends to be very distinct The AJ series of cameras are usually p2 (AVC-Ultra codec family)
    the AG series (used to all be AVCCAM)
    So my speculation would be that if it ever happens said camera would be in the AG series of cameras not AJ.

    And I can't see an Fs-5 / C-100 size camera being rigged up to weigh as much as a fully kitted out LT...Yes I'm sure you can throw a Angenieux Optimo 24-290mm Zoom on it and quickly make weight.

    regarding the REC.709 Lut you can create and load a 709 lut that suits your fancy on the LT...Able cine has a few, also Panasonic released an updated Rec.709 lut in a firmware update from last December I believe.

    If you're handy with a DSC labs chart and resolve you can easily create any LUT you like.
    I've been playing with making some creative monitoring LUTS using the FIlmconvert OFX plugin in resolve.

    Cheers
    KIT:
    Panasonic Varicam LT, Kinemax 6k, Panasonic Lumix GH5, Panasonic Lumix GH4 & YAGH.
    Lomo 25-250mm T3.2, Lomo Foton 37-140, LOMO primes 22mm, 35mm, 50mm, 75mm Zeiss CP1 18mm,25mm,35mm,50mm,85mm, 100mm, Nikon Ais Primes, Assorted Vintage Russian Primes (Helios 44, Jupiter 9, MIR-1A, Tair 11A,Super Albinar)
    Letus Anamorh-X pro 1.33x and 2x anamorphic adapters
    "I had a dream I could buy my way to heaven, when I awoke spent that on Anamorphic Lenses"


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