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    #11
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    I do/have done a lit of live performance videos. On a lower lever there's just no money, so if you try to make filming your living that's definitely not the market to go for. Even bands that have decent budget for music videos have no money to film live shows.

    I'm a musician myself and a lot of my friends are musicians/performers too. I'm happy to make music videos for cheap, but I then demand they are willing to put some time and dedication to it to make the best of whatever low budget they can come up with.
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    #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Capt Quirk View Post
    Because for every video guy wanting to make money, there are 20 guys who are willing to shoot it with their iPhone, and get experience, and get their stuff noticed for free. Some of these "Shade Tree Videographers" do get noticed, and go on from there. It's a dog eat dog world out there.
    not sure what you mean by iphone because the artists I know are paying 200 and a whole film crew shows up with Jibs etc.


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    #13
    Senior Member Design Media Consultants's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cary Knoop View Post
    If you want to run a business you should set pricing based on expenses, equipment depreciation, your salary and profit.

    If a band wants a video but can't afford it's really too bad for the band!

    Hope this helps:

    It's easy to explain why bands get free music videos. It's because they are used to getting "money for nothing and chicks for free!"


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    #14
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    I get dozens of inquiries for music videos each year. And they usually either want it for free or under $500. And they often want it to look like MTV.

    That video is great! I love it! I'd like to post that on my website but it would offend people. I have learned after doing nearly $400,000 of work for free that people want others to work for free or at a rediculous discount, but as soon as the tables are turned they blow a gasket because they think they are are a superior human being than you.
    And dealing with this over 2 decades it is just getting worse.

    That being said, I still do a ton of work for free, but I try real hard now to limit it to the genuine needy and not the selfish users because my health is going downhill fast working so many hours and I don't like being taken advantage of when in the end no good is done and it costs me money and life.


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    #15
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    So 99% of bands are going no where.

    You may choose to shoot them for fun or lo-ball rates.

    Then that one band makes it.

    I do this.

    1) The meagre fees - 'contribution to kit rental'

    2) Owner ship of copyright 'SMM'

    3) License to publish (no charge). 5000 free plays on YTube/Vimeo

    (most bands dont hit this)

    4) Further plays? Come back an negotiate a further license fee or take down the video.

    S


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    #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by offbeatbryce View Post
    not sure what you mean by iphone because the artists I know are paying 200 and a whole film crew shows up with Jibs etc.
    When you understand how the band get "money for nothin, and chicks for free," you will know how they get free videos.

    Two weeks ago, I did a DJ friend a favor. He was playing music during the bands breaks. It was outdoors at a motorcycle dealership. While shooting my friend, I shot one of the band's songs and had B roll of the bikes. After editing, I showed the band the finished video, and offered to sell it to them. They really liked the video, but what they wanted was for me to shoot them playing at an upcoming event with a bigger stage and a larger audience. I tentatively turned it down because they offered nothing for the video I showed them, and I doubt they have a budget to justify properly shooting the event to create a quality piece. We did not discuss the details of the upcoming event. But I figured if they did not offer me something for the video, they probably wanted some free service. They also said they wanted raw footage. I do not give out raw footage. Bands live in an altered reality, and until they make it, they are low budget operators used to people doing them favors.

    My partner and I have shot live events for corporations and we have charged up to $30,000 for a half day shoot. We had 6 cameras, a crane, and a production truck. To shoot the band, I would have wanted multiple cameras and a crew. Unless I have that, the quality will suffer and be a bad representation of my services.

    Unless you are getting a benefit from shooting them for free, I would not do it. If you can use the material on your demo reel, or you think it could get you MV jobs from paying bands, then maybe do it. But from a business perspective, are there enough bands to support your business? Also if other people are falling all over themselves to offer free videos, do you want to be in that niche? Maybe you could try doing one for free and see where it gets you.


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    #17
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    I've been on both sides of it.

    Any decent MV I've done the artist pays close to the prevailing rate (blues guitarist had his label pay for it).

    Being in 2 bands, I've been putting together the idea of using my freelance buds to help me shoot some promo videos of us (I'll cut it obviously).

    I've told them up front that I won't ask them to work for free, but I am asking for a discount on the rate.

    And I guarantee the craft services at the shoot will be first rate.

    FWIW neither band takes the stage for less than $500.
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    Producer, Digital Creative for the United States Postal Service


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    #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by firehawk View Post
    I get dozens of inquiries for music videos each year. And they usually either want it for free or under $500. And they often want it to look like MTV.
    What? They want them to look like reality dating shows? Or have MTV started showing music videos again? ;)
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    #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by dmitrizigany View Post
    What? They want them to look like reality dating shows? Or have MTV started showing music videos again? ;)
    Burrn!
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    Producer, Digital Creative for the United States Postal Service


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    #20
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    Seems like everyone's already figured out the music video "business", such as it is. I've done my share in the past, but that was before the overwhelming flood of the entitlement mentality; today I wouldn't touch it with someone else's 10-foot pole, and I think it's probably the most labor-intensive and least-likely-to-pay-off segment of the independent video producer business.

    But with that said, if some great band was desperate for a video, they just knew for a fact their song was going to take off, and they could only afford $200, there is one way I could see doing it -- the one-take video. There are several bands who've made excellent, fantastic-to-watch videos that are all one take, start to finish. No editing hell. No fancy graphics. Just set up the camera, splash some soft light on them, film, and walk away.

    OK Go is a band that has a reputation for entertaining one-take videos. Here's the first one I saw of theirs, and it's still a favorite:


    That's how you make something with excellent watchability, while spending nothing to film it.

    Or, here's another example. This is, perhaps, the absolute cutest thing you will ever see for the rest of your life. And it's one take. No, you probably won't understand it, but that's okay, I find that part of the charm. Unfortunately the label posted it as interlaced, so that kind of ruins it. Interlace is the spawn of Satan and Hitler, and fortunately it is finally dying and sinking into the infernal hell where it always belonged.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mYcy5YBkTkY

    Can one-take videos lead to anything? In the case of OK GO, it led to what is perhaps the most creative video I've seen in decades. Their latest video, "one moment", was literally filmed in 4.2 seconds. They probably filmed at at least 100,000 fps, and got an entire entertaining 4-minute music video out of what took literally 4.2 seconds to shoot. And it looks like it was bankrolled by Morton Salt, so -- yes, in this one band's case, it did lead to something incredible.
    https://thenextweb.com/shareables/20...#.tnw_7MmJgKvm

    If there's any point to my rambling, it's that asking people to work very hard on something that's going nowhere and to pay them a pittance, is a dead-end loser track. Don't do it. If they've got no money, that's okay, so long as they replace it with something else -- real talent. If they don't have money *or* talent, then -- well, you're doing it as a charity project; is that really the project you want to commit your time and energy to? If I'm gonna do a charity project, I'd probably rather spend my time at Habitat for Humanity or something like that, but to each his own.


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