Page 1 of 6 12345 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 60
  1. Collapse Details
    C300 MKII and FCPX Gamma shift with since latest firmware upgrade 1.0.6
    #1
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Location
    Dubai & London
    Posts
    189
    Default
    Hi,


    Since I have upgraded to the latest C300 MKII firmware 1.0.6 I am now getting a gamma shift, raised blacks when I playback the footage or scrub a clip in FCPX ( also latest version on El Capitain)

    I narrowed it down to the firmware upgrade as the culprit as when I viewed the footage ( all recorded on the previous firmware 1.0.5 ) the footage plays fine but all the footage from projects since the latest firmware produces this gamma shift / low contrast look which is very annoying.

    The other way to get rid of it is to transcode the clips out of FCPX in some converter and then it plays fine but FCPX was fine before so I would love to know if it is possible to go back to the previous firmware, any ideas would be much appreciated.


    Reply With Quote
     

  2. Collapse Details
    #2
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2014
    Posts
    164
    Default
    Cane,

    In the new firmware there is an interesting note about additional metadata being added to Canon Log 1/2/3 footage indicating the video is full range (0-255) as opposed to limited (16-255).

    "10. Metadata related to the XF-AVC range has been corrected.
    - The range of Canon Log/Log2/Log3 has been corrected to full range."

    As I've seen in a lot of NLE's, detailed in this post I did here, the footage was being misinterpreted causing clamped (and clipped) highlights and shadows. So data was being lost essentially on import.

    So, without knowing Final Cut X specifically, I would imagine the image you are now seeing is actually proper compared to the clamped and more conttrasty image you were seeing previously.


    Reply With Quote
     

  3. Collapse Details
    #3
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Location
    Cincinnati, Ohio USA
    Posts
    549
    Default
    I have noticed this potential bug: When shooting in clog-1, when I change between 12-bit 4444 mode and any other mode, the black levels change. They appear "correct" in the non 12-bit modes. This is in the current version of Premiere Pro Creative Cloud.


    Reply With Quote
     

  4. Collapse Details
    #4
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2014
    Posts
    164
    Default
    Drummondb,

    "Correct" in this situation could be interpreted differently.

    Remember, we are shooting a log curve here with elevated blacks. Canon Log 1 and 3 has a black point of 128 on a 10 bit scale or 32 on an 8 bit scale (like Lumetri's)

    If there is anything beneath the 32 code value on your lumetri scope (before any grading obviously) then it is actually incorrect. I have a feeling the RGB information is actually going to be correct, where as your YCC modes are being incorrectly scaled.

    I ran a simple test with the previous firmware on the camera - shoot all the modes with a body cap on and look at where black falls on the Lumetri Scope - and found that they were all being clamped improperly, causing me to loose highlight information and start off with deeper blacks. Building a Full Range to Legal Range scaling LUT (versus the clamp or "chop" that is happening in Premiere) allowed me to properly grade my footage in Lumetri.


    Reply With Quote
     

  5. Collapse Details
    #5
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Location
    Cincinnati, Ohio USA
    Posts
    549
    Default
    Let me rephrase--I've been shooting C-log 1 on various C100's for years. I know where the black is going to be once graded with an official Canon LUT. If if shoot on a black background in C-log, drop on the clog-to-widedr-full LUT, I know I'm going to get a nice black background at zero IRE.

    When I first got the C300mkii a few months ago, I used C-log 1 as a safety blanket, since I knew how to grade it. And yes, C300mk2 footage shot in C-log 1 responded to the LUTs the same way they always have on C100 footage. But now after the update, my black levels are different based on what color mode I'm in. It seems "wrong" to me when shooting in the 12-bit 4444 modes.

    Could the footage always have been "wrong" before, and now it's "right?" Maybe, but I don't think so. I'll have to test further.


    Reply With Quote
     

  6. Collapse Details
    #6
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Location
    Dubai & London
    Posts
    189
    Default
    Hi Macaholic,

    Before the latest C300 MK II firmware upgrade i.0.6, it seemed fine, but now I get a gamma shift every time I play the footage so when it's rendered it raises the blacks but when un-rendered it plays with a normal contrast look.

    Which one is right?

    Can I set the "data" levels in FCPX so it doesn't always play like this, every time I press stop/space-bar or scrub through the clip it's really distracting with the gamma constantly shifting, I don't get why the firmware update would do this unless it's a bug?

    In Canon XF utility player, it plays at the normal contrast level and it matches the same as when I scrub through the footage in FCPX, so if this is the case, then FCPX seems to be interpreting it differently and maybe trying to correct it as you mention but whats the fix?

    I can't seem to find the previous firmware 1.0.5 version on the Canon website either, right now I would love to go back to that as it was totally fine!

    I pasted the images below of what happens, this is meant be C-LOG 3. I can still work with it by adding more contrast or crushing the shadows a tad more than before but it's thrown my workflow off as I had LUTS for other edits I could just copy paste but now i need to re-adjust the blacks and overall contrast...

    Looking at the below images, I thought the more contrasty look (still LOG) would've been true to the C-LOG3 and the raised blacks/flatter look more like C-LOG2, I wonder if anyone else is experiencing this problem?


    Screen Shot 2017-01-13 at 2.55.14 PM.jpg
    Screen Shot 2017-01-13 at 2.54.38 PM.jpg
    Last edited by cane141; 01-13-2017 at 09:31 AM.


    Reply With Quote
     

  7. Collapse Details
    #7
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2014
    Posts
    164
    Default
    Quote Originally Posted by drummondb View Post
    And yes, C300mk2 footage shot in C-log 1 responded to the LUTs the same way they always have on C100 footage.
    I know C100 Mark II footage in the .MP4 format had the same issue - as in it was being read wrong in Premiere and the blacks were being crushed (again we are talking pretty slightly, but usually exacerbated by a LUT). Can't speak to the C100 MK I AVCHD though as I never shot that.

    Again the simple and most sure test is to run a few frames of black in Canon Log 1 or 3, import it like you normally would, and see where it falls on your waveform, just above 26 or just below? This is something I do when on-boarding any new camera system now.

    Quote Originally Posted by cane141 View Post
    now I get a gamma shift every time I play the footage so when it's rendered it raises the blacks but when un-rendered it plays with a normal contrast look.
    That's odd - does your waveform drop when you are playing vs. when you are paused?

    Quote Originally Posted by cane141 View Post
    Can I set the "data" levels in FCPX so it doesn't always play like this
    I wasn't able to find anyway to dictate the data range in Final Cut Pro when I used it. I was on an older version as I won't update to Seirra just yet.

    Quote Originally Posted by cane141 View Post
    In Canon XF utility player, it plays at the normal contrast level and it matches the same as when I scrub through the footage in FCPX, so if this is the case, then FCPX seems to be interpreting it differently and maybe trying to correct it as you mention but whats the fix?
    I would be inclined to say that it XF Utility is going to be showing the image scaled correctly. If you can get the final cut preview window right next to the xf preview window and they are at all different then I would say there is a problem.

    In my version of Final Cut there is no way to change the waveform to code scale or smaller IRE values than 25, so it's impossible to check for certain like you can in Premiere.

    In your two images Cane, the bottom one looks correct to me for Canon Log 3. In fact bringing the two into DaVinci, I can see that the bottom has blacks all above 128 (since there is no pure black portion in the scene this is what I would expect) and image 1 has blacks plunging down to the 70's - something that is not technically possible in an unadulterated Canon Log 3 curve.

    Canon Log 2's black point is actually 96, so while the mids and highs are more compressed then Canon Log 3/1 giving visually a flatter image, the black point of Canon Log 2 being 96 will technically result in ever so slightly blacker blacks out the gate. Don't confuse that for crushed blacks/less information though, as the curve is actually showing us detail from the 96-128 region.
    Last edited by Macaholic; 01-13-2017 at 05:18 PM.


    Reply With Quote
     

  8. Collapse Details
    #8
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Location
    Dubai & London
    Posts
    189
    Default
    https://vimeopro.com/acenlab/cane



    Hi Macaholic,

    Thanks for all your help on this, I have attached a screen capture to show what happens, with waveforms in the edit screen also. (apologies for all the teeth showing )

    Yep, the waveform actually drops when paused, you will see this in the clip.

    At this stage I would love to go back to the previous firmware version but can't seem to find it on the Canon websites, is it even possible to go back?

    For some reason the clip shows up right here when using Firefox but with Safari it's not showing. I pasted a link above also.

    Let me know your thoughts
    Cheers!
    Cane
    Last edited by cane141; 01-14-2017 at 10:32 AM.


    Reply With Quote
     

  9. Collapse Details
    #9
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2016
    Posts
    20
    Default
    Hi Cane

    I have the exact same issue - MBPr mid 2012 macOS Sierra 10.12.2, FCPX 10.3.1, C300 Mark II 1.0.6.

    The problem is there in both Rec. 709 and Rec. 2020 projects. I would also presume that the "more contrasty" version is the correct one, as that is what I am seeing when playing back the files directly from the Cfast cards. I see this as a rather serious issue as I can't use the waveforms and LUTīs also seem to be affected.

    I see that you have just posted on the official FCPX support community. I hope that there will be a solution ASAP.

    Cheers
    Alex


    Reply With Quote
     

  10. Collapse Details
    #10
    Senior Member bill totolo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    Los Angeles
    Posts
    2,185
    Default
    Just reporting I have no issues with latest Canon firmware and PP/CS6 and Resolve 11.5
    Shot Log 3/Cinema Gamut/Production Camera.
    Bill Totolo
    L.A.

    www.billtotolo.com


    Reply With Quote
     

Page 1 of 6 12345 ... LastLast

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •