Page 4 of 4 FirstFirst 1234
Results 31 to 38 of 38
  1. Collapse Details
    #31
    Moderator David Jimerson's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    Wilmington, NC
    Posts
    27,900
    Default
    Quote Originally Posted by Deuceofspades View Post
    David, the cast used their little camcorders, and I don't believe any of those give you options to change frame rate. I checked my SONY camcorder, used for some of the clips, and it only gives me options to shoot in HD or SD, no frame rate options. I think it safe to then assume that none of us shot anything in 30P? What's your take on this?
    Sounds like it's probably plain 60i, then. I only ask because 30p recorded in a 60i stream will have the same problems coverting to 24p that straight 30p does. It's about the number of motion samples. 30p recorded in a 60i stream still has only 30 motion samples per second.

    Now, as I said before -- when you're shooting 60i, when you do a pan, you can pan quickly and it will still look fine. If you shoot 24p and do a pan, you have to do it very slowly or you'll get jumpiness and stutter in the pan.

    BUT, if you convert 60i to 24p, what you end up with is what you'd get if you shot 24p all along. So a pan which is no problem in 60i will still look jerky when converted to 24p, and will look the same as it would have if you had shot 24p in the first place.

    As you're only seeing problems in the pans, it's possible that this is your problem, especially as no one using the cameras was likely aware of what you have to do in order to get smooth pans in 24p, if they had 24p on their minds at all, which it seems like they most likely didn't. There's no software or conversion-method solution to this. It's just the math.
    LEARN FILMMAKING - DIGITAL STREAMING AND DOWNLOADS OF GREAT TRAINING PROGRAMS!



    WRITING FOR TELEVISION ARTICLE | "ASSUMPTION BLUES" FILM NOIR RADIO PLAY | "BLUE SCARLET" RADIO PLAY



    Reply With Quote
     

  2. Collapse Details
    #32
    Senior Member Deuceofspades's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Los Angeles
    Posts
    1,161
    Default
    what you said makes sense, and you are right to a certain degree, however when i compared conversions done in AE to simple rendering from 60i to 24P (as you had suggested initially) the footage converted with AE plays much smoother. I can totally see the difference. So not all the jerkiness can be blamed on the 24P rule of slow panning.
    Quote Originally Posted by David Jimerson View Post
    Sounds like it's probably plain 60i, then. I only ask because 30p recorded in a 60i stream will have the same problems coverting to 24p that straight 30p does. It's about the number of motion samples. 30p recorded in a 60i stream still has only 30 motion samples per second.

    Now, as I said before -- when you're shooting 60i, when you do a pan, you can pan quickly and it will still look fine. If you shoot 24p and do a pan, you have to do it very slowly or you'll get jumpiness and stutter in the pan.

    BUT, if you convert 60i to 24p, what you end up with is what you'd get if you shot 24p all along. So a pan which is no problem in 60i will still look jerky when converted to 24p, and will look the same as it would have if you had shot 24p in the first place.

    As you're only seeing problems in the pans, it's possible that this is your problem, especially as no one using the cameras was likely aware of what you have to do in order to get smooth pans in 24p, if they had 24p on their minds at all, which it seems like they most likely didn't. There's no software or conversion-method solution to this. It's just the math.
    FAITH GRANGER, Multi Award winning filmmaker

    "Best Feature Film", "Best Cinematography", "Best Editing", "Best Screenplay" Awards





    Reply With Quote
     

  3. Collapse Details
    #33
    Senior Member Deuceofspades's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Los Angeles
    Posts
    1,161
    Default
    As I said before, I am happy with the conversion done is AE - EXCEPT FOR THE CONTRAST. Therefore, it would be nice if we could find a solution to this problem, rather than trying to tell me how to convert, since I already have figured that part out, tested it and the converted footage plays smoothly and syncs back with audio OK.

    IMPORTANT NOTE: I just realized that AE is giving me an error message when i first fire it up, and I should mention it here because I don't know what it means, but it could posibly affect the way the clips are imported (thus creating more contrast)?


    ERROR MESSAGE = "the following plug ins have failed to load: mediaCore\cineform\CFHD_AVI_importer.prm (and also it lists) mediaCore\cineform\CFHD_MOV_importer.prm"

    I have consistently pressed OK and ignored it, and have been able to drag both avi or mov clips into my project without apparent problems, but now I am wondering whether ignoring it is a mistake LOL. Could it be causing the contrast problem?


    It is asking me to reinstall the plugins, how do I do that? Reinstall the entire CS5.5 Production Suite? Or??
    FAITH GRANGER, Multi Award winning filmmaker

    "Best Feature Film", "Best Cinematography", "Best Editing", "Best Screenplay" Awards





    Reply With Quote
     

  4. Collapse Details
    #34
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Posts
    138
    Default
    Faith,

    This problem has puzzled me since I learned my responses were NOT the solution. I also think that there are several discussions occurring here relating to the contrast problem, interlace vs progressive and also terminology regarding 30/60/i/p frame rates. I am not sure that your specific error message is related to the contrast problem, but I think it might be. One fix for the errors is to remove the importers and can be found here
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VzTE52djLrk
    OR
    https://bhivelogs.wordpress.com/2015...ailed-to-load/

    Since you said that "the cast used their little camcorders," I'll assume that might have included GoPros. The Cineform importers were probably installed or damaged when you loaded something like GoPro studio.

    Whether on not that fixes the problem, I think you have established that the footage looks too contrasty even before the rendering, so that means that any improper "corrections" occurred upon IMPORT. Meaning that something (codec, importer, settings, whatever) is changing the way AE interprets the file prior to rendering.

    Can you confirm that the imported footage looks too contrasty upon import? If you would like, can you send me a second or two of the footage to verify there is nothing related to the footage itself?

    Jim
    Colorburst Video


    BTW, I have heard that RedGiant Frames works pretty well, but so does Kramer's.
    Last edited by arco1; 11-22-2015 at 06:25 AM.


    Reply With Quote
     

  5. Collapse Details
    #35
    Senior Member Deuceofspades's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Los Angeles
    Posts
    1,161
    Default
    Hi Jim,

    I was able to solve the error messages by uninstalling Gopro studio, a few days ago

    Bad news is, the error messages had nothing to do with the contrast problem, since after they are gone the contrast problem is STILL HERE.

    I think a lot of replies here were not helpful because they did not deal with the problem I was posting about, we got lost in other topics. THE PROBLEM IS AE COLOR SPACE. I read up for a few hours on AE color management, color space etc etc (very complicated) and I am now convinced that AE is not able to read the color information contained in the clips (or, if the clips don't have any color info, AE is making up its own, and not quite nailing it).

    SO WHAT I NEED TO FIX MY PROBLEM IS FIND WHICH COLOR SPACE WOULD APPROXIMATE BEST MY ORIGINAL CLIPS.

    problem is, I am running into problem when trying to change the project's color space property and then going to "INTERPRET FOOTAGE" because for some reason the options under "color management" tab are greyed out and I cannot select them or change them.

    FURTHERMORE I AM GETTING VERY VERY VERY FRUSTRATED WITH ADOBE BECAUSE THEY OFFER NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO SUPPORT FOR CUSTOMERS LIKE ME WHO PAID OVER $1,000 FOR THEIR PRODUCTION PREMIUM SUITE. Unless you join their cloud dictatorship, you get NO HELP. forum is the only option and I have been on it for 10 days now and received NO HELP.

    SO WHAT GIVES??? WILL I BE STUCK FOREVER?





    Quote Originally Posted by arco1 View Post
    Faith,

    This problem has puzzled me since I learned my responses were NOT the solution. I also think that there are several discussions occurring here relating to the contrast problem, interlace vs progressive and also terminology regarding 30/60/i/p frame rates. I am not sure that your specific error message is related to the contrast problem, but I think it might be. One fix for the errors is to remove the importers and can be found here
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VzTE52djLrk
    OR
    https://bhivelogs.wordpress.com/2015...ailed-to-load/

    Since you said that "the cast used their little camcorders," I'll assume that might have included GoPros. The Cineform importers were probably installed or damaged when you loaded something like GoPro studio.

    Whether on not that fixes the problem, I think you have established that the footage looks too contrasty even before the rendering, so that means that any improper "corrections" occurred upon IMPORT. Meaning that something (codec, importer, settings, whatever) is changing the way AE interprets the file prior to rendering.

    Can you confirm that the imported footage looks too contrasty upon import? If you would like, can you send me a second or two of the footage to verify there is nothing related to the footage itself?

    Jim
    Colorburst Video


    BTW, I have heard that RedGiant Frames works pretty well, but so does Kramer's.
    FAITH GRANGER, Multi Award winning filmmaker

    "Best Feature Film", "Best Cinematography", "Best Editing", "Best Screenplay" Awards





    Reply With Quote
     

  6. Collapse Details
    #36
    Senior Member Andrius Simutis's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    Seattle
    Posts
    1,133
    Default
    Gamma.


    Reply With Quote
     

  7. Collapse Details
    #37
    Senior Member Deuceofspades's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Los Angeles
    Posts
    1,161
    Default
    After 10 days of battling this problem, I was finally able to find a work around it . hallelujah. Worked like a charm . Since AE is able to read the embedded color info of JPG and TIFFS and PNG just fine without shifting the contrast, I simply made vegas render my test clip into a TIFF sequence and imported it back into AE and it looked identical to my original clip. I then had AE render it to lossless .mov to see if clip retain contrast integrity. I then imported the rendered .mov file back into vegas and compared it with my original: IDENTICAL and in perfect sync. Just to be sure, I then imported the .mov file back into AE to see if it would once again shift contrast but it did not. I assume it embeded color info into the .mov file when it rendered it, so it now can read it just fine, no more mistakes.

    Since I had to pre-render my clips anyway before bringing them into AE (I'll skip the details) this workaround is actually not going to add too much more work to my plate. It's a bit of a pain to organize sequence renders, as opposed to video clips, but hey it is what it is. At least I am no longer STUCK. No thanks to Adobe support though.
    FAITH GRANGER, Multi Award winning filmmaker

    "Best Feature Film", "Best Cinematography", "Best Editing", "Best Screenplay" Awards





    Reply With Quote
     

  8. Collapse Details
    #38
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Posts
    138
    Default
    Faith,

    Very glad to hear that you have found a suitable workaround. I sometimes resort to TIFF sequence -> output file for very long programs or those with complicated renders.

    I think that your 'solution' might even give us a few hints as to what is actually happening/happened. You even hinted at it when you said, "AE is able to read the embedded color info of JPG and TIFFS ... fine without shifting the contrast." AE is a powerful and complex program and can do many things. Since AE rendered the TIFs to an mov correctly, we can probably assume that AE itself is working and configured correctly. If you would like to continue troubleshooting, and after you finish your current project, let me know. I am still curious as to exactly where this was all going south.

    Then again, this glitch might never occur again and our time might be better spent working on our next project.


    Jim
    Last edited by arco1; 11-24-2015 at 06:24 AM.


    Reply With Quote
     

Page 4 of 4 FirstFirst 1234

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •