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    #11
    Senior Member visceralpsyche's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dustylense View Post
    Bought , tried, falls short. Does not have more DR or even the equivalent of VLOG. Especially in the shadows. Set up exactly like your manual. Shot at 200 ISO which is noiser than VLog at 400 ISO.
    Would love to see some full size stills of those tests you posted. Because no doubt the V-Log has the same magenta blocking it always has. That YouTube video has it all over (even the thumbnail for it shows it all over the water).

    I actually think (read bias into it if you like, but I'm serious) that the still of my LUT applied to your image looks much nicer than the Neumann one. Your graded V-Log one looks more like mine from the thumbnail, but please do show us the full size ones for comparison, as I would especially like to lift the black levels on mine to show you the same look as the Neumann LUT

    As always, I appreciate criticism too! That's how we improve

    Thanks,

    Paul
    Paul Leeming
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    #12
    Senior Member visceralpsyche's Avatar
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    By the way, I find ISO 400 to show the most dynamic range with my LUT too, so that's something to consider.
    Paul Leeming
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    #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by visceralpsyche View Post

    BUT, BUT, V-LOG L HAS BETTER DYNAMIC RANGE!

    Actually, no, it doesn't. With the correct in-camera settings for Cinelike D (-5 -3 -5 0 0 and 0 everything else), Cinelike D and V-Log L have the same effective dynamic range.
    Can you provide some proof of this?


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    #14
    Senior Member visceralpsyche's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xrayspecs View Post
    I don't see any mention of compatibility with Final Cut Pro X. Is your LUT a 3D LUT (FCPX-compatible with the LUT Utility) or a 1D LUT (not FCPX-compatible)?
    Good question. I'm Windows based so unfortunately I don't have Final Cut to test with. Can someone chime in and let me know? Then I can add that to the official list of supported apps!

    Cheers,

    Paul
    Paul Leeming
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    #15
    Senior Member dustylense's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by visceralpsyche View Post
    You need to lift the shadows to match the other LUT. The LUT is designed not to artificially lift anything but it takes one second to nudge shadows up to match levels, and you'll see they are the same

    Thanks for buying and testing. I'm confident my LUT holds up better than your initial test.

    Cheers,

    Paul
    Already did that. And they are not the same. Look at the color channel clipping in the shadows.

    Leeming Lut lifted shadow to match VLOG
    Lemming Flower.jpg


    VLOG Nuemann Lut.
    Vlog Flower.jpg

    Look at the color channels.

    Not the same.

    The only thing I see in your LUT is an improvement to the color of the blue channel for CineD for things like skies. Your greens however are super fluorescent looking.

    Enjoy your $15.


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    #16
    Senior Member visceralpsyche's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tibby View Post
    Can you provide some proof of this?
    Look at the images and you can see it. I know it's hard to take my word for it.

    Dynamic range is NOT highlight retention. Digital sensors either have highlight info, or they are clipped. "Rolloff" is more a function of where middle grey sits relative to how many stops above that still hold information clipping.

    Dynamic range is: Set the exposure to JUST beneath clipping range at the highlight end (99.9% if you will). Now look down into the shadows. How far down can you see usable information? This is what I refer to by dynamic range. If you compare V-Log L and Cinelike D with -5 -3 -5 0 0 (forget my LUT portion, the original uncorrected file will do) you will see that if both are properly exposed to hit 99.9% of highlight value, you'll be able to match the levels between them and find the same amount of shadow detail visible. This is what I refer to when I say they have the same dynamic range. The difference is, V-Log L gives a bunch of extra noise and colour smearing that Cinelike D doesn't, hence you can extract a cleaner shadow level from Cinelike D if you match levels.

    If I had one I'd shoot a Stouffer chart, then there would be no more discussion. Unfortunately I don't have one. If anyone has one, please let me know. I'll throw a freebie your way in order to get a definitive answer.

    Good discussion!

    Cheers,

    Paul
    Paul Leeming
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    #17
    Senior Member visceralpsyche's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by walkaboutcamera View Post
    Paul

    thank you very much for this. I know the pragmatic quickly thinkers (non thinkers actually) will be appalled by this but would you consider three more luts optimized for each of the idynamic settings. I suspect (pragmatic quickly) if you set idynamic to high you can drop your ISO by 2 stops and get the same 18% grey data data level as you had before the idynamic and ISO change. Idynamic reaches into the shadows pushing the dynamic range to the left and lifting the mid tones, highlights at the clip point remain unmoved. The reduced ISO helps with the noise problem associated with idynamic, and gets you 2 more stops of highlight head room.

    If if you go to http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/pana...mix-dmc-gh4/10 you can see what I am talking about. I suspect the idynamic shown is being applied to the standard or natural profiles, it is not specified in the text.

    I would certainly be willing to buy a pro extension pack from you that would be include luts for each of the idynamic setting, or even just the high setting.

    again thank you Paul and I hope you will consider this.
    iDynamic makes mush of the image though. It's a terrible setting that really shouldn't be used if you want to retain your image quality and be certain of what you're going to get.
    Paul Leeming
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    #18
    Senior Member dustylense's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by visceralpsyche View Post
    Would love to see some full size stills of those tests you posted. Because no doubt the V-Log has the same magenta blocking it always has. That YouTube video has it all over (even the thumbnail for it shows it all over the water).

    I actually think (read bias into it if you like, but I'm serious) that the still of my LUT applied to your image looks much nicer than the Neumann one. Your graded V-Log one looks more like mine from the thumbnail, but please do show us the full size ones for comparison, as I would especially like to lift the black levels on mine to show you the same look as the Neumann LUT

    As always, I appreciate criticism too! That's how we improve

    Thanks,

    Paul
    Not getting horrible magenta blocking using the Neumann Luts or a handful of James Miller LUT's. And what does show up is the same about of artifacting I see using your LUT. Just being honest man.


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    #19
    Senior Member visceralpsyche's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dustylense View Post
    Already did that. And they are not the same. Look at the color channel clipping in the shadows.

    Leeming Lut lifted shadow to match VLOG
    Lemming Flower.jpg


    VLOG Nuemann Lut.
    Vlog Flower.jpg

    Look at the color channels.

    Not the same.

    The only thing I see in your LUT is an improvement to the color of the blue channel for CineD for things like skies. Your greens however are super fluorescent looking.

    Enjoy your $15.
    Greens can be pulled back if you think they are too much.

    It's weird. I'm not seeing hard noise floors like you are. If I lift shadows in dark shots, they roll upwards like your V-Log example.

    Original Cinelike D direct out of camera (underexposed - this was a torture test clip):



    Leeming LUT One applied only, no further adjustments (image is actually made darker, due to correcting for tonality):



    LUT applied and shadows/blacks lifted. Note there is information there, not a flat line:



    Hopefully someone else can chime in with their own tests as well. I truly want this to be the best LUT that's non V-Log oriented, so it's good to get critical feedback to make it even better

    Can you post the Cinelike D clip without my LUT applied and shadows lifted, to see if it makes a difference?

    Cheers,

    Paul
    Paul Leeming
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    #20
    Senior Member visceralpsyche's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dustylense View Post
    Not getting horrible magenta blocking using the Neumann Luts or a handful of James Miller LUT's. And what does show up is the same about of artifacting I see using your LUT. Just being honest man.
    I wouldn't ask for anything else

    You're recording internally, right? Just checking to be sure.

    Would also really love some 4K uncompressed PNG files to pixel peep on your stills. Because in my experience there's no way to avoid the magenta unless you're recording external 10 bit.

    Cheers,

    Paul
    Paul Leeming
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