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    #21
    Chapelgrove Films
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    Quote Originally Posted by combatentropy View Post
    Interesting. So are these the only effects of "blank guns": the recoil, an empty bullet case jumping out, and maybe some smoke at the back? You still have to add a gun flash, it sounds like, in post. I thought that the main reason to use blanks, instead of nothing, was to get a real gun flash out of the barrel. Then again, guns seem to spit out less fire in real life than in movies.

    On a related note, I think post-added gun flashes look fake unless you somehow light up the gun and even the actor a little. The light from a real gun flash would light up the gun itself and stuff around it a tad. A dead give-away of a fake flash is that a flash emits from the gun, but nothing around the gun receives any light. Maybe have a light off screen pointed at the gun, which you flash when the actor pulls the trigger. The trick would be timing it just right of course.
    Yes, you still have to add the muzzle flash in post. But using blanks in real guns is extremely dangerous. That's how people die.

    I've seen FX software that adds the highlighting on actors and surroundings to coincide with the muzzle flash. It takes work and skill to make it look real, but that's true of anything you do on your film.
    David W. Richardson
    Writer/Producer/Director/Editor
    Chapel Grove Films
    Celtic Cross Films
    Bliss Video Productions
    http://www.imdb.com/name/nm1400903/?ref_=tt_ov_dr


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    #22
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    You could ask these guys what happens with the props they sell, not too expensive either.

    http://www.hollywoodpropsupply.com/BlankGuns.html

    Then there is this, which must use guns that can be modified back to full firearms and probably what you want to avoid since licensing is required.

    http://dailycaller.com/2013/03/20/gu...ts-their-guns/

    Interesting that NY puts more restrictions on how the device functions. The battery powered fakes sound like an interesting idea.


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    #23
    Sound Ninja Noiz2's Avatar
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    I know an armorer and for films with a decent budget you will see real or modified real guns. Depending on the scene he would be firing either real blanks or stage blanks. Stage Blanks are designed for use on stage and the "wadding" desintegrates so that there is not a plug going down range as there is with a normal blank. If there are people down range of the firing then stage blanks are the way to go. Often the accidents happen when either blocking does a surprise change and an actor is down range who wasn't when the shot was set up, or some actor goffing around shoots themselves. Even a stage blank can kill at close range in a vital area. But that is a big budget with a weapons crew and very strict control. And that is why every so often some actor does something they were told not to do and someone gets hurt. The reason to use them, as explained to me, is that nothing else actually looks believable to someone who knows guns. Real guns are LOUD, and heavy and the firing has an impact on the actor. True blank only guns don't have a muzzle flash but more importantly the gas is ported to someplace improper like the side so they don't look right. His recommendation if you don't go with real, which he would NOT recommend unless you have the budget for a full trained weapons crew, is to go airsoft and eliminate the danger. He also recommends so actual firing range practice for the actors so they know what a real gun feels like.
    Cheers
    SK


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    #24
    Sound Ninja Noiz2's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by roxics View Post
    We have a large indoor flea market here in the Detroit area that's filled with a ton of different small shops.
    Where? I would love to know. Relocating has cost me my old list of go to places and this sounds like a place I need to know about. You can just email me since I'm not sure there are many in the Detroit area here.
    Cheers
    SK


    Scott Koue
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    #25
    Chapelgrove Films
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    Quote Originally Posted by Noiz2 View Post
    I know an armorer and for films with a decent budget you will see real or modified real guns. Depending on the scene he would be firing either real blanks or stage blanks. Stage Blanks are designed for use on stage and the "wadding" desintegrates so that there is not a plug going down range as there is with a normal blank. If there are people down range of the firing then stage blanks are the way to go. Often the accidents happen when either blocking does a surprise change and an actor is down range who wasn't when the shot was set up, or some actor goffing around shoots themselves. Even a stage blank can kill at close range in a vital area. But that is a big budget with a weapons crew and very strict control. And that is why every so often some actor does something they were told not to do and someone gets hurt. The reason to use them, as explained to me, is that nothing else actually looks believable to someone who knows guns. Real guns are LOUD, and heavy and the firing has an impact on the actor. True blank only guns don't have a muzzle flash but more importantly the gas is ported to someplace improper like the side so they don't look right. His recommendation if you don't go with real, which he would NOT recommend unless you have the budget for a full trained weapons crew, is to go airsoft and eliminate the danger. He also recommends so actual firing range practice for the actors so they know what a real gun feels like.
    The thing is, in the two highest profile deaths from using blanks loaded into real guns, it wasn't the wadding that was the problem.

    In Brandon Lee's death, the gun had been previously loaded with fake shells -- shells which had no powder, but did have actual slugs on them, so the slugs could be seen when the pistol was shot from the front. They then removed those fake shells and loaded blanks. What they failed to realize was that one of the slugs had come loose from its shell and remained in the chamber. So when the blank round fired, it propelled that slug out of the barrel and into Mr. Lee.

    In the case of Jon-Erik Hexum, he placed the barrel of a real gun loaded with blanks against his head and pulled the trigger. The force of the blast coming out the end of the barrel dislodged a portion of Mr. Hexum's skull and drove it into his brain.

    Both could have been prevented if guns designed to ONLY shoot blanks had been used.
    David W. Richardson
    Writer/Producer/Director/Editor
    Chapel Grove Films
    Celtic Cross Films
    Bliss Video Productions
    http://www.imdb.com/name/nm1400903/?ref_=tt_ov_dr


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    #26
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    Blank firing guns are good to use as well. As someone noted, the barrels are plugged, they are loud, and eject, much more real and adds better production value. Nothing kills production value more than a plastic gun with CGi flashes.


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    #27
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    Use airsoft guns for sure. They are the smartest way to go. I know local supplier who sells airsoft guns and other tactical gear that are used on major productions all the time. You can get some pretty realistic airsoft guns for fairly cheap. All of the guns used in this short were airsoft guns https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b8tWYtivadk. Most of them are metal and fooled a lot of the actors who were ex military. A couple of them even fooled an Army Combat Specialist who was on a shoot we had. Most of the people who play airsoft are ex military and they play it because it feels like the real thing. You can mod airsoft guns just like real guns, you can shoot them all day without worrying about killing anyone and you don't need a permit/ license to own one.*However don't load them with BB's. They can still take out an eye/lens. And You still have to be careful about who/ where you carry them. You don't want to go running through a neighborhood with a replica AK-47 and get the police called. I live in Idaho where we are pretty relaxed with our gun laws but that wouldn't pass in a major metropolitan area like NY or LA.


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    #28
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    Use airsoft guns for sure. They are the smartest way to go.
    Here's an entirely different type of horror story about filming with guns. Actor was holding an airsoft gun. For this "crime", he faces 10 YEARS in a New Jersey prison.
    http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/201...-airsoft-prop/

    Ten years in prison. For holding an airsoft.

    There are some absolutely insane laws out there. You'd better know what the laws are where you intend to shoot, and if you're in a state or city that's hostile to civilian ownership of guns, there can be some severe consequences. One can assume (and yeah, there's danger there too) that you'd be okay with a strictly non-firing replica, but even then, if you're shooting in a big city that has draconian laws, you might end up in trouble there too. And if what you're doing isn't plainly and clearly obvious to a passing pedestrian or officer, you might end up in a tad of trouble, such as when a Cleveland officer shot to death a 12-year-old kid who was holding a toy gun.

    Talk to your local film commission. Ask them first. They're likely to know whether you're going to face issues with the law related to using a replica, blank-firing, toy or airsoft "firearm".


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    #29
    Senior Member David W. Jones's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Barry_Green View Post
    Here's an entirely different type of horror story about filming with guns. Actor was holding an airsoft gun. For this "crime", he faces 10 YEARS in a New Jersey prison.
    http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/201...-airsoft-prop/

    Ten years in prison. For holding an airsoft.

    There are some absolutely insane laws out there. You'd better know what the laws are where you intend to shoot, and if you're in a state or city that's hostile to civilian ownership of guns, there can be some severe consequences. One can assume (and yeah, there's danger there too) that you'd be okay with a strictly non-firing replica, but even then, if you're shooting in a big city that has draconian laws, you might end up in trouble there too. And if what you're doing isn't plainly and clearly obvious to a passing pedestrian or officer, you might end up in a tad of trouble, such as when a Cleveland officer shot to death a 12-year-old kid who was holding a toy gun.

    Talk to your local film commission. Ask them first. They're likely to know whether you're going to face issues with the law related to using a replica, blank-firing, toy or airsoft "firearm".

    Oh the joys of working for free on a no budget indie film where there is no insurance and no permits, but great IMDB credit.


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    #30
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    I would always just inform the local authorities in your area if you are filming with fake guns of any kind. Even if you don't have a permit just talk to them and talk to the people around you( neighbors, passers-by) really anyone who isn't apart of the production should know what you are doing so that the worst isn't assumed and so that horrible accidents don't happen.


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