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    It may be simpler than we thought to get Tally Light with External Recorders...
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    So, I just ran across something looking into the F23 firmware, and then checked it against the F35 Manual:

    To select the operation mode when starting/stopping recording on the SRW-1 using a REC trigger via the DC OUT 24 V connector.

    SWITCH: Mode detecting an edge of the REC trigger signal to start/stop SRW-1 recording by using an external switch.


    RECORDER: Mode detecting the level of the REC trigger signal for start/stop SRW-1 recording by entering the REC status from an external recorder connected to the interface box. The same as when recording is started on the SRW-1, the RUN indicator and the fan quieting function are valid.

    What does that mean? It would seem that applying some sort of simple electrical pulse to the 24VDC out port of the camera, in conjunction with the menu setting, will make the tally lights and fan respond as if the camera is recording!!!

    So how do we implement this practically? One, we need to know what the electrical pulse is, and how it's wired. It may be simply closing the circuit (shorting it), but I'm a little leery of testing it. Second, we need to attach that to the record state of the recorder. How to do that will vary on the recorder. But this might be possible.


    (I'm wondering it this mode converts the 24VDC out to something like 5VDC out, and then closing the circuit triggers it... but that's just a first theory.)


    If anyone has a better idea on how this works, can you let me know?




    James Houk, DoP
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    I believe it is just a shorting of a circuit. Ie. a moviecam or arri handle from a 435/SR3/Compact will run and stop my F65 - so it would work with the F35 too.

    I don't know if it would have the desired effect when running with a non-standard recorder (which is basically all of them these days)
    James Martin, UK-based DoP
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    Quote Originally Posted by JMtheDP View Post
    I believe it is just a shorting of a circuit. Ie. a moviecam or arri handle from a 435/SR3/Compact will run and stop my F65 - so it would work with the F35 too.

    I don't know if it would have the desired effect when running with a non-standard recorder (which is basically all of them these days)
    In regards to the F23/F35, this only operates the tally light and fan noise. Since, by nature, it's for a recorder that's not docked, doing this has no control over the recorder, but rather, should be controlled by the recorder. A more apt point is that most recorders don't support this feature by default. The trick is seeing how a record active signal might be captured and sent to the camera. A good test subject might be a cheap Hyperdeck Shuttle recorder - see if you can open it up, and latch into a led light that only goes active when recording, or some such.

    This isn't a zero work project, but it's something potentially interesting and feasible.
    James Houk, DoP
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    Actually, in regard to the Hyperdeck Shuttle, it might be easiest to use a microcontroller with the USB port.
    James Houk, DoP
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    By the way a lot of wired LCS system can send a run/stop command as they get their power from the 24v RS socket too...
    James Martin, UK-based DoP
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    Quote Originally Posted by JMtheDP View Post
    By the way a lot of wired LCS system can send a run/stop command as they get their power from the 24v RS socket too...
    Do you know a wiring diagram for this? If I'm going to test I want to try the right pins.
    James Houk, DoP
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    If we can get this figured out precisely, it may be something the remote port on the Convergent Designs Odyssey 7Q/7Q+ would be hardware capable of delivering. If so, I think it might be relatively simple firmware update... and, again, if so, then you could use an O7Q to get full 12bit RGB, tally light, and fan noise reduction during recording...
    James Houk, DoP
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    Such tally light triggers are generally embedded into the SDI stream as secondary signals. You'll never be able to pull them out to use elsewhere.

    But there is a simpler way and it is available today. For the Odyssey7Q+, we offer a cabled remote trigger that plugs into the monitor/recorder's RMT port. The remote trigger button contains an LED that functions as a tally light. Even if you use other trigger mechanisms in the Odyssey7Q+ to initiate recording, that LED will still function as a tally light. So you can wrap that cable around to anywhere you'd like on your camera rig and use it as a tally indicator. And don't worry about touching it and accidentally triggering recording; the Odyssey needs to be set to the remote for the switch to function as the trigger.
    Mitch Gross
    Cinema Product Manager
    Panasonic System Solutions Company


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    Quote Originally Posted by Mitch Gross View Post
    Such tally light triggers are generally embedded into the SDI stream as secondary signals. You'll never be able to pull them out to use elsewhere.

    But there is a simpler way and it is available today. For the Odyssey7Q+, we offer a cabled remote trigger that plugs into the monitor/recorder's RMT port. The remote trigger button contains an LED that functions as a tally light. Even if you use other trigger mechanisms in the Odyssey7Q+ to initiate recording, that LED will still function as a tally light. So you can wrap that cable around to anywhere you'd like on your camera rig and use it as a tally indicator. And don't worry about touching it and accidentally triggering recording; the Odyssey needs to be set to the remote for the switch to function as the trigger.
    Mitch, I believe you misunderstood the basis of how this works for the F35. I'm not discussing a method of triggering the external recorder (O7Q or otherwise) from the F35. I'm discussing a method by which an external recorder could inform the F35 that it is recording. They provided this feature so that the camera could reduce fan noise and turn on the tally lights. I'm actually more concerned about the fan noise than the tally light, since that would benefit audio on set.

    In practice, it appears that the F35 does a voltage edge detect on a wire attached to the 24VDC out port. This was specifically developed for a Codex recorder that didn't wet-dock like the SRW-1. So, in theory, I'm thinking it might be possible for the O7Q remote port to also use it's remote port to trip this voltage edge detect, whenever someone hits rec/stop on the O7Q - not on the camera (hitting record on the camera would do nothing)

    Does that make sense?
    James Houk, DoP
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    #10
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    I see.

    We do output a signal voltage for recording at the RMT port. If anyone can find out what that edge detection signaling is on the F35 then we could determine if we are or could become compatible. It is likely to be something similar to the trigger pulse system used for motion control systems using Kuper control protocols, but this is something one would need to reach out to Sony to determine.
    Mitch Gross
    Cinema Product Manager
    Panasonic System Solutions Company


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