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    Turning a daylight into tungsten night
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    I have a shoot coming up in the next few weeks and just doing some pre-production.

    I am shooting in a bathroom which has a window 120cmx150cm. The scene is suppose to be shot at night time, however I can only obtain the use of the bathroom during the day.

    So what I want to do is turn the daylight into night and also color correct it for 3200K as I will be using tungsten lights in the bathroom. The question is how do I go about doing this ?

    Do I buy a Full CTO filter such as

    http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/cont...goryNavigation

    and a moon blue filter such as

    http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/cont...goryNavigation

    and just stick them one over the other on the outside window? So what I would be getting through the window then would hopefully be 3200K moonlight?

    Any ideas or suggestions on this would be really appreciated

    Thanks

    Robert


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    Senior Member Ralph Oshiro's Avatar
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    Yes, buy some full CTO to correct from daylight (5600K) to tungsten (3200K). You might also want to throw some ND 0.9 on there as well to bring the level down. Also, think about a wood cucoloris and/or a celo cucoloris (or just use a real tree) as a cutter over the window to create a pattern.


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    #3
    Senior Member Ralph Oshiro's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robert Double
    So what I would be getting through the window then would hopefully be 3200K moonlight?
    Umm, "3200K 'moonlight'" is an oxymoron. When white balanced to 3200K, any 3200K source (or corrected source, e.g., your CTO-gelled window) will photograph white. "Moonlight" is usually mimicked by throwing half or full CTB (blue gel) on your "white light" source. If that's what you want, you could HALF CTO your window instead of full. The light from the window would go blue. But you should cut the light coming into the window with a pattern or something (like the cukes or a tree branch with leaves) or else it just might look funny (like you didn't white balance correctly).


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    Senior Member HybridCreations's Avatar
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    Well you definitely don't need BOTH those gels for this shot. They will cancel each other out. If you are going for a interior night shot, can you just put a duvateen or a black blanket over the window and block out all the light coming through the window? The amount of sunlight coming through the window will be WAY too much and will not look like moonlight no matter what you do. Then just white balance normally inside (with the lights on of course).
    -Ryan
    Check out my website.


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    #5
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    I could just put a black blanket over the window, not sure what it would like though. I don't think the glass is frosted so it might look a bit strange seeing a complete black void. But I will have to check on the glass.

    If the glass isn't frosted then based on what NBC is saying I could just put 1/2 CTO on the windows with some cucoloris for some shadows. Also I would need to add some diffusion of some sort to reduce the sunlight even further. I am guessing ND Gel for this? or some kind of fabric?


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    Adding CTO would match the daylight (5600 k) from the window to tungsten (3200 k). So, the light entering the window would look the same as the lights you are using inside. Is that what you want?

    You need to decide what the source is for the light that will be coming through the window. Is it supposed to be moonlight? Is it supposed to be coming from a street lamp? Usually moonlight is represented as blue, the color of light given off by street lamps varies.

    You probably want to avoid seeing a lot of sky through the window, too.


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    Remeber gels are subtractive, they don't add color they remove color. So here' how I'd approach it. (Assuming you want blue moonlight)

    1. Measure the light throught the window with an incident meter. Once you have this measurement, you can start making decisions on how much reduction you want for your scene.

    2. What is the color temp of your daylight, at noon it can easily go beyond 5600 as high as 6400. So with rosco gels here's what they will do
    3407 - ROSCOSUN CTO - 5500>2900 -1.1 fStop
    3411 - ROSCOSUN 3/4 CTO - 5500>3200 -.8 fstop
    3408 - ROSCOSUN 1/2 CTO - 5500>3800 -.5 fStop
    3409 - ROSCOSUN 1/4 CTO - 5500>4500 - .3 fStop
    If you need to reduce light more then ND Gel's will do this
    3415 -1/2 fStop
    3402 - 1 fStop
    3403 - 2 fstops
    3404 - 3 fstops

    Other material you can use to reduce light are spun silk, frost etc.

    3. Now I'd simple balance the lighting for the rest of the scene based on some sort of contrast ratio.

    Breaking the light up with a cuco can add visul interest to the light. Here's a few rules of thumb I use to determine if its practicle.
    1. Does it match the exterior, in other words I don't want palm trees in Alaska or any trees in the desert, or on the 30th floor.
    2. is adding to the scene or upstaging the scene. If anyone is noticing my lighting I'm not doing a good job. I want them to concetrate on the subject matter of the scene.
    3. Finally is it worth the time and effort

    So to sum up, only reduce the hot blue enough to make it moonlight. Cut the light to bring iinto ratio with the rest of your scene lighting and have a good time!


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    Senior Member mediamilitia's Avatar
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    First off those gels you showed us from B&H wont cover a whole window. 20" X 24" I believe. You will either need to find a roll of gel to do it or be very very clean tiling the pieces together.

    If you must have light through the window, but you gotta shoot it during the day then I would build a tent around the window and light. Its the same concept as just blacking out the windows, but instead of going up straight to the glass just build a tent out of duvy, black side of a griff, or black tarp from home depot (Cheap!) with c-stands, ladders, etc...Build the tent 6 feet of the wall by 6 ft wide by however tall the window is. You have now controlled all of the daylight spill and can do anything you want with the light inside the tent.

    I did this with a 1200 par and it did not melt the griff or plastic after 2 solid days of shooting...Worked flawlessly.

    Here are some stills of the set up. The Key is coming from frame Left. It is the 1200HMI source outside the window, surrounded by a tent during the day.

    http://www.mediamilitia.tv/betsysdancingskirt2.jpg
    http://www.mediamilitia.tv/betsysdancingskirt1.jpg

    Hope this helps
    | Kevin Joelson | Cinematographer | www.kevinjoelson.net |


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    I'm with Media on this one. If I were doing it I'd tent it and create my own light, because this way the angle of light doesn't change (the sun is always changing). However, a 1200 par is overkill for most shoots I've been on, unless the room is large, and most bathrooms aren't. I've able to create daylight from dark in a room with only a 1k. Every situation is different and you'll have to play with it, just make sure you use hard light and it's set in a high angle and control spill if the window is ever in the shot.

    the cuko is a good idea as well or as i prefer, actual branks being moved by a PA to simulate wind.

    If you use an HMI it's already blue. If not then use 1/2 blue gels on the lights. If someone is coming in to turn on the lights you need daylight bulbs in the fixtures and time it to have the exterior light turned off at the same moment or dimmed, depending on how you''re shooting it.


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    I agree, the tent is the best option, if it is an option. I don't know where I got the idea it had to be sunlight, but it is always better to use your instruments and control the light!


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