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    Quote Originally Posted by CineStill View Post
    I recently sold my two AF102 cameras and have just been allocated a RED Raven after a years wait! ...
    I mentioned on another thread that Red Raven is basically what the AF200 would/could/should have been.


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    Quote Originally Posted by DLD View Post
    I mentioned on another thread that Red Raven is basically what the AF200 would/could/should have been.
    The Raven is $7,000 for just the brain. That's three and a half times as expensive as an AF100A was two years ago. Add the DSMC2 Base Package and you're looking at about $12,500 for a workable lensless Raven package. How is that in any way comparable with the market segment the AF100 was in?

    That's more VariCam LT territory, not AF100/AF200 territory, isn't it?


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    Maybe Panasonic will surprise us at this years NAB and at least talk about a replacement for the AF100, all they would really need to do is put the guts of a GH5 in a Pro camera body designed for interchangeable lenses………….it’s a no brainer and would sell like hot cakes at 3K.


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    Senior Member CineStill's Avatar
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    Hi Barry
    Yes you are right regarding current pricing.
    I paid $10,000 USD for the RED Raven I/O package which was the introductory package offered by RED in 2015 and while I paid $5000 in Australia for the AF102 I'm sure it would have been cheaper in the US.
    So maybe the AF102 is one third of the price of a Raven?
    I still feel Panasonic does not listen to its customer base as well as RED does.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Barry_Green View Post
    The Raven is $7,000 for just the brain. That's three and a half times as expensive as an AF100A was two years ago. Add the DSMC2 Base Package and you're looking at about $12,500 for a workable lensless Raven package. How is that in any way comparable with the market segment the AF100 was in?

    That's more VariCam LT territory, not AF100/AF200 territory, isn't it?
    Red's margins, costs of manufacturing and the R&D have to be higher - at least, percentage wise - than of a major Japan based conglomerate. As a comparison for pricing, I'd look at Sony FS-5, which can shoot Raw into a Q7+ for about $8,000 combined. An MFT derived camera would/should retail for even less.

    If one drops the Raw capability completely, GH-5 can already shoot 10-bit V-log internal for $2,100. Let's say it'd run another $1,500 for an AF-100 style body.

    To bring up another example, JVC LS 300 is retailing for $2,600 already.

    Interpolating between the above, it looks like a $5,000-6,000'ish MFT 4K Raw package would be possible under the current market rates. We'll see what the NAB brings.


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    Well, Blackmagic has managed to release a Ursa Mini Pro, with external controls like the AF100, built in filters and interchangeable mounts, covering EF, PL and B4, with Nikon F on the way, for under $6K! Except for the fact it is a 4.6K S35 sensor, it is the camera the AF200 could have been, if it were a MFT mount camera with a smaller sensor.
    Cheers


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    Quote Originally Posted by Denny16 View Post
    Well, Blackmagic has managed to release a Ursa Mini Pro, with external controls like the AF100, built in filters and interchangeable mounts, covering EF, PL and B4, with Nikon F on the way, for under $6K! Except for the fact it is a 4.6K S35 sensor, it is the camera the AF200 could have been, if it were a MFT mount camera with a smaller sensor.
    Cheers
    By the time you add a viewfinder and battery, the Ursa Mini Pro gets up there in price.
    Like a lot of others on this site I waited for Panasonic to follow up on the AF100.
    Well, as we all know, they didn't.
    I bought the GH4, but could never get into the DLSR form factor. Eventually, I ended up buying a Sony FS5.
    A nice little camera, and in my opinion, probably the closest you're gonna a get to the AF100.
    I will say say this; though it has better image quality, I still miss a lot of the Panny's features.
    Panasonic dropped the ball. What a shame.
    T
    .
    Last edited by TFilipiak; 03-20-2017 at 08:48 PM.


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    Yes, the Ursa Mini Pro costs more, especially if you add on the battery plate, shoulder mount/handle kit, and EVF.
    I also wish Panasonic had come up with a AF200 with true 10-bit recording and output, even at $6K.

    If you add an external ProRes video recorder, the AF100A can still do a good job with controlled lighting. The Sony FS5 is nice too, but it is more toward broadcast in terms of color saturation.
    Cheers


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    Quote Originally Posted by Denny16 View Post
    Well, Blackmagic has managed to release a Ursa Mini Pro, with external controls like the AF100, built in filters and interchangeable mounts, covering EF, PL and B4, with Nikon F on the way, for under $6K! Except for the fact it is a 4.6K S35 sensor, it is the camera the AF200 could have been, if it were a MFT mount camera with a smaller sensor.
    Cheers
    This is the thing that's been frustrating me about Panasonic for about 6 years now, they've had the technology to produce something very much like the Ursa Mini Pro, at a similar price point since before BMD was even making cameras - yet, they haven't (for some reason) seen the value in fulfilling their vision of producing relatively inexpensive cinema cameras for the masses. Anyone remember when Panasonic was positioning the AF100 as a digital replacement for S16 film? What happened to THAT company? I've slowly moved on to BMD's offerings as they've proven a much stronger interest and commitment in making the kind of cameras I want, but it's still baffling to me that Panasonic doesn't dominate the $5,000.00 (ish) compact cinema camera space... it was theirs to lose.

    Shawn


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    Quote Originally Posted by ShawnMi View Post
    This is the thing that's been frustrating me about Panasonic for about 6 years now, they've had the technology to produce something very much like the Ursa Mini Pro, at a similar price point since before BMD was even making cameras - yet, they haven't (for some reason) seen the value in fulfilling their vision of producing relatively inexpensive cinema cameras for the masses. Anyone remember when Panasonic was positioning the AF100 as a digital replacement for S16 film? What happened to THAT company? I've slowly moved on to BMD's offerings as they've proven a much stronger interest and commitment in making the kind of cameras I want, but it's still baffling to me that Panasonic doesn't dominate the $5,000.00 (ish) compact cinema camera space... it was theirs to lose.
    Because they wanted to focus on the DSLR craze and pump out new GH# cameras. Meh. Plus, the AF100 never met the bottom-line expectations the suits were hoping for.
    Jason R. Johnston
    Fifty Oars Motion Pictures


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