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    #11
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    You can't just send in a 4444 signal and record it as a 422 signal. They are structurally different and the incoming signal would have to be transformed and decimated down into a 422 signal. You will be losing a lot of info along the way.
    Mitch Gross
    NYC


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    #12
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    As others have stated the only reason to try to 4K during capture would be to attempt to make the camera appear to be 4K camera. Otherwise there is no point at all. From a workflow standpoint it makes far more sense to capture in HD and upscale in post. The file sizes will be smaller, faster to work with and won't require the bandwidth/processing power of 4K. Upscaling in post will most likely produce better results with the processing being done in on a much more powerful PC, potentially, and it doesn't need to be real time.

    The best upscaling tool I have come across so far is a node in Nuke called TVI scale, I don't know if it exists elsewhere. It is uses an algorithm specifically designed to upscale an image by 200%. It produces results that are visually better than any upscaler I have used so far but it is slow running at less than 1 frame per second even on a powerful PC.


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    #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mitch Gross View Post
    You can't just send in a 4444 signal and record it as a 422 signal. They are structurally different and the incoming signal would have to be transformed and decimated down into a 422 signal. You will be losing a lot of info along the way.
    Thatís what the decimator 12g is doing. Making it 4K 422.

    C


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    #14
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    Archduk, you are using confusing lingo. I understand what you want to do. Basically everything you are suggesting has been discussed. I came to the conclusion that the Aja Hi-5 4K plus might be able to do everything in one box. Input 12-bit dual link and output 4K over hdmi. Remember 7Q+ can take 4K hdmi. It will all come down to this: can the uprez use the 12-bit 4444 as a source. We don’t know. What’s the point to uprez from 10bit 422?

    2nd point I would like to make is to look at those who actually use F35 will all echo the same thing: keep us simple keep it light. You are adding more devices to power, more bnc cables to drop signal, just a cable mess. I would suggest buying F35 and mastering it before you begin designing complicated signal path. It is certainly possible, but get off paper and you start to realize simpler is better. Once you know how to shoot great footage with the F35 then experiment with live 4K, it’s a cool idea, it will be a nightmare if your plan is to start this way.


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    #15
    Senior Member Mike Krumlauf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by yachacha View Post
    Archduk, you are using confusing lingo. I understand what you want to do. Basically everything you are suggesting has been discussed. I came to the conclusion that the Aja Hi-5 4K plus might be able to do everything in one box. Input 12-bit dual link and output 4K over hdmi. Remember 7Q+ can take 4K hdmi. It will all come down to this: can the uprez use the 12-bit 4444 as a source. We don’t know. What’s the point to uprez from 10bit 422?

    2nd point I would like to make is to look at those who actually use F35 will all echo the same thing: keep us simple keep it light. You are adding more devices to power, more bnc cables to drop signal, just a cable mess. I would suggest buying F35 and mastering it before you begin designing complicated signal path. It is certainly possible, but get off paper and you start to realize simpler is better. Once you know how to shoot great footage with the F35 then experiment with live 4K, it’s a cool idea, it will be a nightmare if your plan is to start this way.
    I agree with what yachacha is telling you dude. You're trying to get something out of an already badass camera that IMHO doesnt make a difference to its image quality and will end you up with a camera full of cables and clutter. I was one of the few working with my F-series camera as it was intended (SRW deck, shooting on tape) and let me tell you, while I enjoyed the workflow, that camera was so damn heavy. If I could go back, I'd probably have spent that SRW money into something like a Ki Pro Mini again and kept the weight down a tad. I'm telling you from personal experience, dont start trying to get more signal than what the camera is capabile of doing either from its original recording medium or what it gives you out its BNC plugs. You're opening up a recipie for disaster that could cost you more than you paid for the camera outright.

    Why not just be happy with the fact that you have 12bit 444 1080psf on a super 35mm CCD sensor? Why must we be greedy for more when we already have great tools to begin with?
    Cameras
    Sony HDW-F900R Cinealta Cinema ENG Camera
    Sony HVR-Z1u HDV Camera

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    CANON HJ21x7.5 T2.1 HD-EC CINE ZOOM LENS (Keslow Modified)
    Zeiss Digizoom 6-24mm T1.9 Cinema Lens

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    AJA Kona 3 PCIe 4:4:4 Dual Link Card W/ Breakout Box
    Panasonic AJ-HD1400 DVCPRO HD VTR

    Accessories
    Astro DM-3000 HD-SDI Monitor
    Astro DM-3005 HD-SDI Monitor
    Benro Fluid Head Tripod
    Chrosziel MB 450-01 & CLWAH-F4,5 Matte Box


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    #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by yachacha View Post
    Archduk, you are using confusing lingo. I understand what you want to do. Basically everything you are suggesting has been discussed. I came to the conclusion that the Aja Hi-5 4K plus might be able to do everything in one box. Input 12-bit dual link and output 4K over hdmi. Remember 7Q+ can take 4K hdmi. It will all come down to this: can the uprez use the 12-bit 4444 as a source. We donít know. Whatís the point to uprez from 10bit 422?

    2nd point I would like to make is to look at those who actually use F35 will all echo the same thing: keep us simple keep it light. You are adding more devices to power, more bnc cables to drop signal, just a cable mess. I would suggest buying F35 and mastering it before you begin designing complicated signal path. It is certainly possible, but get off paper and you start to realize simpler is better. Once you know how to shoot great footage with the F35 then experiment with live 4K, itís a cool idea, it will be a nightmare if your plan is to start this way.

    I understand. Letís just say that COVID has given me more time, and less work, hence I am trying to see what I can do in terms of research.

    My goal would still be to get the F35, get it working with my PIX E5 (which I already own) and then work from there. However it is always fun to see if you can push the envelope.

    Iím waiting to hear back from decimator, but they basically said they canít convert a YUV 4444 to 4K. But hdmi 444 RGB might work, something they will test and get back to me.

    When all this is over main go all is to find one that is still for sale, service it, figure out a way for it to work for me, and shoot smaller local projects with it. All commercial work people still rent Alexa minis, so it would still be mainly for my own sake.

    The things that I wondering in terms of resolution is what I learn from Yedlins prep demos. 1080/2k looks amazing at 4K display. And would love to see it captured like that.

    C


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    #17
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    I guess my question is what's the point? The finished image will not be superior and in fact may be inferior. If it is to trick anyone into thinking that you are originating in 4K than not only is this a bad idea functionally but it can get you into some troble. I just don't see how doing this is worthwhile.
    Mitch Gross
    NYC


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    #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Archduk3 View Post
    The things that I wondering in terms of resolution is what I learn from Yedlins prep demos. 1080/2k looks amazing at 4K display. And would love to see it captured like that.

    C
    I may be missing something but what I remember from watching is demo on resolution was that 4K didn't matter since the resolution increase was not noticable and HD was enough for display. Capturing in 4K is not going to change anything, what comes out of the camera is the all the data you are going to get. The best you can hope for is that it will look the same as the HD capture and the process of upscaling to 4K during capture didn't degrade the image at all.


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    #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mitch Gross View Post
    I guess my question is what's the point? The finished image will not be superior and in fact may be inferior. If it is to trick anyone into thinking that you are originating in 4K than not only is this a bad idea functionally but it can get you into some troble. I just don't see how doing this is worthwhile.
    Ok I surrender.

    I heard back from both black magic and decimator. As you all have said, possibility is there, just not sure what it may do, if it even works.

    Thank you so much for bearing with me, I guess these COVID times has gone a bit far too my brain.

    C


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