Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 30
  1. Collapse Details
    F35 vs. Blackmagic 4K
    #1
    Default
    I wanted to compare how close the latest entry level 4K compared to the best 1080p from yesteryear (F35),
    and whether keeping the F35 was still worth the effort with all these newfangled 4K cameras coming out.

    My intention was to do a simple real world test to see how close I could get both cameras to match in 1080, and gauge the major differences in those pixel peeping moments.
    Please take the images below with a grain of salt. They are not scientific by any means. I just put the two cameras side by side and pointed at some fruit.

    I didn't use the same lenses for my test because the mounts were different, but there was some good glass on both cameras.
    In this test the Blackmagic had a 85mm 1.2, and the Sony a 55-105mm Zeiss VP (@95mm) (both matched to approximate field of view.)
    The Canon lens was stopped down to 2.2, and the Zeiss fully open at 2.2. Blackmagic was @400 iso, F35 @ 450. Both were set to 5600k. with late afternoon sunlight from the window as the only key.

    It's interesting to consider their lens combinations as a system.
    The Canon 85mm lens was designed for full frame still sensor, so despite being stopped down 2 stops, to my eye it still felt a little bit softer.
    Note, the focus fall-off on the red mesh is slightly different based on the focal length differences. Pay attention to the wood grain of the table, and the tangerine skin for sharpness.
    When comparing the downscale of both @ 1080p the F35/Zeiss still felt slightly sharper.
    It's a pretty good testament to the fact that the best of yesterday compares very well to the latest from today.

    It also shows it's not always about best technology on paper spec sheet, but the right combinations and applications of it.

    See the images below, I can happily say the F35 more than holds its own, I actually prefer it.
    The F35 seemed to render and capture the colors I observed more accurately.
    The combination of the F35/Zeiss yielded that right shade of orange 'out of the box'.
    The Blackmagic felt a little duller in terms of color (some of this is was due to 4:2:2 ProRes).
    While the Blackmagic could be color corrected to match more closely, on F35 the information was just there, it didn't need to be invented or tweaked.

    What this test showed me was the simple fact that both cameras are pretty awesome, both yield awesome 1080p.
    The F35s full RGB sensor is really sensitive to subtle color gradations. The Blackmagic yields a highly correctable image that can inter-cut with any camera.

    In the future, I am curious to see how the 4K raw on the Blackmagic will compare to the F35s uncompressed RGB stripe sensor.
    Its a great to live in a time where we have access to such amazing quality.

    BM 4K
    4K_graded_00000.jpg

    F35
    F35_graded_00000.jpg

    BM 4K original (film gamut - log)
    4K__scaled_untreated_00000.jpg

    F35 original (S-gamut - log)
    F35_Untreated_00000.jpg
    Manuel

    Film Scientist
    www.filmscientist.com


    Reply With Quote
     

  2. Collapse Details
    #2
    Default
    link to the full res still files below, since dvxuser truncates the the thumbnails.

    http://ge.tt/9dn9Igd1/v/0?c
    Manuel

    Film Scientist
    www.filmscientist.com


    Reply With Quote
     

  3. Collapse Details
    #3
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Bristol, UK
    Posts
    8,088
    Default
    Did you test moiree?


    Reply With Quote
     

  4. Collapse Details
    #4
    Default
    Nope, I didn't do a test for moiré.
    Manuel

    Film Scientist
    www.filmscientist.com


    Reply With Quote
     

  5. Collapse Details
    #5
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Bristol, UK
    Posts
    8,088
    Default
    Casual observation makes makes the BMC non usable due to that issue.


    Reply With Quote
     

  6. Collapse Details
    #6
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Terrel, TX
    Posts
    104
    Default
    Tried my own grade.
    Focused on matching wood in shadow and wall for both shots to see how it would effect color on oranges.
    For a long time I have felt that CMOS cameras treat skin tone as essentially one color, and have remarked how the F35 allows skin to actually change color/tint from shadow to highlight.
    In the real world, skin color is a combination of blood and pigmentation. The blood shows up from sub-surface scattering, where our skin, like wax, allows light to enter and bounce around inside before exiting again.
    When skin reflects light at shallow angles (specular highlights), the amount of pigment colored light overcomes the amount of sub-surface scattered light (red), tinting the skin away from red towards yellow.
    In shadow, where specular light is at a minimum, the ratio of sub-surface light to pigment light is much higher, resulting in redder (blood) tones.
    I think these 2 grades demonstrate this even with the oranges.
    Compare the 2 images and focus on the deepest shadows of the orange skins. In one picture, the shadows go more red, and the extreme highlights move toward yellow. In the other, the same color seems to be maintained throughout, almost artificially.
    The 4K image treats the color of the orange as being consistent all the way from shadow to highs, ignoring that subsurface scattering would actually effect color the most in shadow. I think this is the result of using a debayering system to achieve color instead of sampling it accurately.
    The F35 allows a distinct change in tint, going from reddish shadows to yellow highlights.
    At least that's what my eyes are seeing.
    Granted, this is really a very subtle observation, but I think it's real.

    Love to be proved wrong, if this is just my imagination . . .



    Full size here -
    http://www.sandboxproduction.com/F35_Clean.png
    http://www.sandboxproduction.com/4K_Clean.png
    Attached Images Attached Images


    Reply With Quote
     

  7. Collapse Details
    #7
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Posts
    144
    Default
    I'd say the f35 looks more resolute too - a crisper image.


    Reply With Quote
     

  8. Collapse Details
    #8
    Senior Member jenningsp's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    Melbourne, Australia
    Posts
    957
    Default
    I love testing and I love seeing comparisons! Keep them coming!

    I owned the BMPC4k for 2 days before returning it Motion and colours on the BMPC4k are really nice. What isn't no nice is the limited highlight room, limited dynamic range in general and the fixed pattern noise that shows up in the shadow areas...

    Would love to see a high contrast daylight scene and a dark and murky tungsten scene!

    As for detail, I think the BM has the edge in terms of zooming in and reframing. But the F35 seems to render detail in a unique way. It seems to accentuate fine detail and give it a very crisp matte dry look.
    Patrick Jennings
    Melbourne, Australia
    patrickjennings.com.au


    Reply With Quote
     

  9. Collapse Details
    #9
    Default
    Hi Sandbox,
    It's not your imagination, I see the same effects too. The orange appears as one color, minimal color variation on the Blackmagic, like an 'orange blob'.
    The F35 nailed the color of the real orange while picking up subtle variations in hue and specularity.
    Manuel

    Film Scientist
    www.filmscientist.com


    Reply With Quote
     

  10. Collapse Details
    #10
    Senior Member Joncarr's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Location
    NYC
    Posts
    171
    Default
    Let's see some comparisons of skin tones without labels and see who can tell which is which. Just for fun.
    Dp Reel
    http://www.joncarrdp.com/
    RED EPIC & G&E Rentals in NYC
    http://www.visualcinema.com/rentals/cameras/
    Instagram
    http://instagram.com/joncarrdp
    EPIC-X DRAGON #5359 GN​-X Schneider Xenon FF Primes PL
    It's REDcode or no code...


    Reply With Quote
     

Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •