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    25P footage quality
    #1
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    Hi,

    struggling to get good results out of this camera, esp at 25P.

    When I film the general quality at 25P is v low, but also something strange happens, people's faces are soft even though bodies/clothes are sharp. It's the weirdest thing, like the camera can't handle skin tones and blurs out, but it can handle sharp defined edges. It's almost as if you put a de-focus mask over everyone's faces.

    Weirdly at 50P this problem completely goes away - also when converting that 50P footage to 25P, there is no issue.

    But at 25p - fuzzy faces!

    Any ideas? Is it something I'm doing or just a quirk of the camera, or maybe a fault?

    Many thanks,

    Mark
    UK


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    #2
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    That most definitely doesn't sound normal.

    Do you perhaps have SKIN TONE DTL set to "ON"?


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    #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by Barry_Green View Post
    That most definitely doesn't sound normal.

    Do you perhaps have SKIN TONE DTL set to "ON"?
    hi,

    many thanks for reply!

    where would that setting be?

    i've not really changed many settings at all

    but surely that would affect 50P footage too, if it was a setting affecting it?

    worth a try tho

    many thanks


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    #4
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    It's in the menus in "Camera Setup".

    And you are correct, it should equally affect 25P and 50P.

    What you're describing doesn't sound normal; could you perhaps show some footage that exhibits the problem, and some that doesn't?


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    #5
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    Thanks just checked and it's set to OFF. Will do some tests and try and upload them somewhere.

    Or I could just keep shooting at 50P but i guess that not so good at low light huh.

    A quick q re workflow, f shooting at 50P I've been converting to a 25P Apple Pro Res in an AVCHD Converter. I'm guessing for regular shutter speed I should shoot at 1/50th still, if going down to 25?

    Is there anything else I should factor in, or just a straight convert from 50fps to 25fps?

    Editing in FCP 7.

    Thanks! If not cool to ask this here I'll repost in Workflow. Cheers.


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    #6
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    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Location
    Liverpool, England
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    Im recording a conference this friday, I have been advised to film it 25p rather than 50p due to potential low light in the hall. But there is a 'fairground' theme inside another hall and I want to capture all the vibrant colours etc (stored some settings from your book Barry which is brill)

    Barry, would you record 25p or 50p (I'm uk based btw) for this event?


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    #7
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    Hey Gaddster, I'm UK too would it be poss to call u and ask u a couple of AC90 questions? Struggling to get the best out of this cam! Cheers! If cool I could PM for a number? No worries if not tho.


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    #8
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    If they've asked for 25p, I'd use 25p; always give the client what they want. The colors will be identical between 25p and 50p, the only thing that changes is the motion.


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    reply to barry
    #9
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    Hi Barry,

    OK here are some quick tests:

    AC90 at 25P (shutter 1/50)
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aKoYeXRcKhE
    This is seriously fuzzy if you look at it at decent res, whole thing is fuzzy but the face especially seems more out of focus.

    AC90 at 50P uploaded at 50fps (shutter 1/50)
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Aui6FXb08Ds
    This is a lot sharper which I guess you'd expect, as twice the frames?

    AC90 at 50P but converted to 25fps (shutter 1/50)
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8P6WHhWPh3A
    This is 50P converted to 25fps, and even on YouTube you can hopefully tell it's significantly sharper that the 25P footage. But why is this?

    Is my camera faulty at 25P?

    Or is it something I'm doing?

    The quality at 50P is so superior, although motion seems a little jittery and wondering if I should be at a different shutter speed?

    Any help mosssst welcome!

    Mark, UK


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    #10
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    Hi Mark,

    Okay I took all the clips and screen-shotted them into Photoshop, overlaid them and compared 'em. There's no point in using the 50p->25p clip, as it looks absolutely identical to your native 50p clip, so I discarded that one right off.

    That left 25p and 50p native. And yes, there's a massive difference -- not just in the face, but in the background as well.

    But what I also noticed is that the face is grossly overexposed. And it was in bright light. And so that leads me to a potential diagnosis: diffraction. You didn't mention your shutter speed, or whether it was different for the two shots, but you did say the motion on the 50p seemed "jittery", which would lead me to think it had a higher shutter speed.

    So here's the thing -- you cannot cannot cannot cannot cannot cannot cannot cannot cannot cannot cannot cannot cannot cannot let an AC90 (or HMC40 or HMC80) stop the iris down any more closed than f6.8. That's the limit. Any more, and your picture will go soft and blurry, exactly as you are demonstrating. F/8 is tolerable, but still a loss of quality. F/11 is a disaster. I suspect your 25p footage was probably shot at f/11, with a slower shutter speed, and that your 50p footage was shot with a higher shutter speed which let the lens open up to f/6.8 or more.

    So, if you would, please re-run your test. Use manual focus and manual exposure, set the iris to f/5.6, and change the shutter speed to set the exposure properly. I am fairly certain you'll then find the footage quality indistinguishable between 25p and 50p.


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