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    Measuring rolling shutter: put a number on this issue!
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    Senior Member Samuel H's Avatar
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    So, in the D5200 thread here, we're kind of worried that this exceptional little toy may have more rolling shutter issues than other cameras.

    This should be a measurable thing: if we knew how many ms it takes each camera to read the sensor, we wouldn't have to be looking at all those piles of not-really-comparable youtube tests.
    Also, when a new camera comes out, we would just have to measure it: no need to compare the D5200 first against a GH2, then against a D800, then a 5D3, then...

    In order to get a half-decent measure of this, I would need to get a very short clip from each camera, shot following these instructions:
    * camera on a tripod, well levelled, set at 24p and 1/50s shutter
    * a vertical line somewhere in the frame, crossing it completely from top to bottom (it can be a pole, or a corner, or a door, etc; if it is clearly tilted it will distort my measure)
    * start recording, do a quick pan left at constant speed, then a quick pan right at constant speed, repeat, reapeat, then stop recording
    (that's a total of 3 pans left and 3 pans right, which will help average off the measurement errors)

    If you want to know how your camera fares in relation to others, record that, then send me a link to the unedited file to similaar.feedback@gmail.com (or through a PM on dvxuser) and I'll use two consecutive frames to measure top-to-bottom delay in relation to frame-to-frame delay.

    Using the left-to-right and right-to-left measures, the camera-is-not-really-level and vertical-line-is-not-really-vertical issues should be averaged out. And averaging several clilps should smooth out any issues related with the pan speed not being constant (in any case, to get a constant speed, do a long pan that goes on for a while, even if it has to be slower, instead of just a quick whip-and-stop; if you can't find two consecutive frames where the skew is the same, then the pan is not good).




    BM 4.6K (2K crop)--- 6.3 ms (official)
    1DX II 1080p 60&120- 6.7 ms (6.6-6.7)
    NX1 1080p ---------- 7.9 ms (7.7-8.0-8.1-7.8)
    NX500 2.5k --------- 8.6 ms (8.2-8.8-8.9)
    BM MicroStudio 4K--- 9.9 ms (official)
    a7r II 1080p S35--- 10.5 ms (11.0-10.0)
    a7r II 1080p FF---- 10.8 ms (11.0-10.5)
    1DX II 1080p 24 --- 11.1 ms (11.1-11.2)
    a6000 1080p24&30--- 12.2 ms (13.9-11.1-11.5)
    BM 4.6K (4K crop)-- 12.6 ms (official)
    BMMCC ------------- 13.3 ms (official) my measurement was 13.4 ms (13.7-13.5-12.9)
    GH4 1080p --------- 13.7 ms (13.7-13.5-13.1-14.0-13.9-13.5-13.5-13.9)
    D750 -------------- 14.5 ms (14.6-14.1-14.6-14.8)
    1DX II 4k 24&60 --- 14.7 ms (14.6-14.9-14.9-14.6)
    RX10 -------------- 14.8 ms (14.5-14.8-15.0)
    GH5 --------------- 15.0 ms (official, preproduction)
    BM 4.6K ----------- 15.2 ms (official) my measurement was 16.3 ms (16.3-15.9-16.8)
    a6300 1080p24 ----- 15.2 ms (15.8-14.6)
    GX85 1080p -------- 15.4 ms (13.8-16.7-15.7)
    GH3 --------------- 15.5 ms (15.4-15.7-15.4)
    G7 1080p ---------- 16.9 ms (17.5-16.3)
    XT2 1080p --------- 16.9 ms (16.9-16.0-17.4-17.3)
    RX100 IV 1080p ---- 16.9 ms (16.5-17.3) (without stabilization it's slightly faster: 16.1)
    BMPCC ------------- 17.7 ms (official) my measurement was 17.8 ms (17.7-17.7-20.0-20.0)
    a7s APS-C 1080p --- 19.5 ms (20.3-18.4-19.5-19.5)
    a7R II 4K FF ------ 19.9 ms (19.3-19.6-19.4-21.2)
    5D3 --------------- 20.5 ms (20.7-20.5-20.4)
    D5200 ------------- 22.4 ms (22.5-22.1-22.6)
    GH4 4K/UHD -------- 22.0 ms (official) my measurement was 22.5 ms(23.2-22.3-22.7-22.7-22.4-21.8-22.4-22.8-22.6)
    BMC --------------- 23.6 ms (official) my measurement was 25.0 ms (26.7-24.8-23.5)
    5D2 --------------- 25.9 ms (25.5-26.4-25.8)
    5Dsr -------------- 27.7 ms (27.5-27.9-27.6)
    G7 4k ------------- 28.1 ms (27.8-28.5)
    GX85 4k ----------- 28.9 ms (30.2-29.0-28.8-27.5)
    NEX-5N ------------ 29.4 ms (28.8-29.6-28.9-29.8-29.8-29.1-29.7)
    a7s II FF 1080p --- 30.3 ms (29.5-31.2)
    a7s II FF 4K ------ 30.4 ms (30.2-30.6)
    a7s FF 1080p ------ 30.5 ms (30.1-32.0-30.5-30.3-29.2-30.9)
    XT2 4k ------------ 30.7 ms (30.5-30.7-31.2-31.2-30.8-29.9)
    NX1 4K ------------ 30.9 ms (30.6-31.6-31.4-30.7-30.2)
    NX1 UHD ----------- 32.6 ms (32.9-32.0-32.9-32.5)
    a7R II 4K S35 ----- 33.3 ms (35.6-32.2-32.8-35.3-32.6-31.1)
    RX100 IV 4K ------- 36.6 ms (36.4-36.7) (without stabilization it's slightly faster: 35.7)
    a6300 4K 24fps ---- 39.0 ms (39.2-38.9)

    OTHER NUMBERS, MOST OF THEM FOUND BY SQUIG SOMEWHERE ON THE WEB:

    Film --------------- 5 ms? (here)
    Scarlet ----------- 14 ms
    F65 --------------- 14 ms
    AF100 ------------- 14.85 ms
    FS100 ------------- 15 ms
    FS7 --------------- 15 ms (here)
    C300 -------------- 16 ms
    Red One MX -------- 16.6 ms
    7D ---------------- 21 ms
    5D MKII ----------- 25 ms
    GH1 --------------- 25 ms
    D90 --------------- 33 ms

    Last edited by Samuel H; 04-23-2017 at 02:29 AM.


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    Senior Member Samuel H's Avatar
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    I ran the tests with my NEX-5N, and the results are very consistent... and also very different from the measures I got when I was using standard footage and trying to measure this. If the line is not vertical, the left-to-right and the right-to-left measures will be very different. Averaging them out gives a very accurate approximation of the true value, but if you don't do that (and it has to be the same vertical line, with the camera exactly in the same position), the numbers can be very misleading.

    My original measure for the NEX-5N was 23.4ms, calculated with some standard footage that happened to have a half-useful pan. Then I ran the tests as described above, 5 times, with the following results: 28.8ms, 29.6ms, 28.9ms, 29.8ms, 29.8ms.
    Last edited by Samuel H; 03-20-2013 at 11:31 AM.


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    Senior Member Samuel H's Avatar
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    I ran the tests on a BMC. The results were not as consistent as with the 5N, but I would be happy with my overall average: 25ms (shooting RAW at 24p)
    Last edited by Samuel H; 03-19-2013 at 04:16 AM.


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    5N has a different rolling shutter depending on if it's 50p or 25p. In 25p it's quite bad.


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    Senior Member Samuel H's Avatar
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    I have the US version, but yes, I was very surprised to see it compare so badly with the BMC at 24p. I never thought of this little toy as particularly shutter-impaired, maybe I've subconsciously adjusted to slow camera movement over the last couple of years, with a T2i first and then with the 5N...

    Squig is sending me some files soon, so we'll have a few more cameras to compare.


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    Senior Member Samuel H's Avatar
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    Thanks a lot to Squig, for he sent me tests with 4 cameras!!!

    NEX-5N: 29.4 (exactly the number I had with my tests!)
    D5200: 22.4
    5D2: 25.9
    5D3: 20.5




    He also sent me these numbers, which he found somewhere on the net, and which, given our 5D2 result, may be comparable with the list above:
    Scarlet 14ms
    F65 14ms
    FS100 15ms
    AF100 14.85ms
    C300 16ms
    Red One MX 16.6ms
    7D 21ms
    5D MKII 25ms
    GH1 25ms
    D90 33ms
    Last edited by Samuel H; 03-20-2013 at 11:21 AM.


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    How do you get these numbers?

    I have a feeling my RX100 is pretty good here, but no 24p


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    Senior Member Samuel H's Avatar
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    look at the vertical line that gets skewed
    measure horizontal difference from top point in frame t to bottom point in frame t (A pixels)
    measure horizontal difference from top point in frame t to top point in frame t+1 (B pixels)

    if B pixels is 1000/24=41.7ms, then A pixels is (41.7*A/B) ms

    it is normal that the left pan and the right pan will give you different numbers, but the average should be pretty consistent

    If you don't get it working, send me the file and I'll measure it


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    Senior Member squig's Avatar
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    The D5200 did better than I expected, if you hadhold it the roller shutter seems worse because it's so light, same goes for the Nex-5n. But if you handhold any DSLR you're a bloody idiot!

    It would be great if we could get some numbers for the GH3, GH2, 1DC, 1DX, and D800 too.
    GAMMA Post-Apocalyptic feature behind the scenes production blog http://gamma-movie.com/behindscenes.php


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    Quote Originally Posted by squig View Post
    The D5200 did better than I expected, if you hadhold it the roller shutter seems worse because it's so light, same goes for the Nex-5n. But if you handhold any DSLR you're a bloody idiot!

    It would be great if we could get some numbers for the GH3, GH2, 1DC, 1DX, and D800 too.
    Add F3 and F5 to the list.
    You don't need to add the F55.


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