When is a guru not a guru?

[nycineaste]

On the other hand, since about the mid-19th century artists have formed groups/movements, and have attempted to construct theories of their 'art', or set guiding principles of what their art 'is', and 'means'.....

Yes, I studied art at the world famous Art Students League for a short time (strokes chin and raises pinky), and the instructors were all WORKING artists with careers, as they teached (if your asking why they had to teach while they held careers, then you know nothing about what a life in the arts is like). In any case, each one developed a personal theory about what art is and how to create it, and each set of theories was used to INSTRUCT, not just pontificate.

a complex or esoteric theory of art is fine of you want to pontificate and act like you can account for every creative work ever made (which no theory can), but as creative persons, none of us should care about that- what we need are tools and techniques, and it best when these are kept SIMPLE AS POSSIBLE (in a way thats still useful of course), so that they dont get in the way of INSTINCT AND EMOTION AND RISK TAKING which are also vital for creation.

an art students league teacher told me something ill never forget:

"KEEP WHAT YOU KNOW SIMPLE"

[Batutta]

"KEEP WHAT YOU KNOW SIMPLE"

One of my teachers said that in an ever simpler way....KEEP IT SIMPLE STUPID...or K.I.S.S.

[wcmartell]

Some things are true whether the person telling you about them can execute them well himself or not.

Everyone learns from observation. We watch until we figure out how something is done, then we try doing it again and again until we get it right. A teacher is someone who has great powers of observation and can guide *our* observations - point out things we may have missed. Just because they have great powers of observation doesn't mean they can do it - lots of sports coaches can see the problem but may not have the physical ability that an athlete has.

But that sports coach may not have the experience to know exactly how to solve the problem. They have the theoretical solution, but not the step-by-step practical solution. And that's why some of those gurus get trashed - they can tell you what's wrong, but not how to fix it.

- Bill

[texvanwinkle]

Everyone learns from observation. We watch until we figure out how something is done, then we try doing it again and again until we get it right. A teacher is someone who has great powers of observation and can guide *our* observations - point out things we may have missed. Just because they have great powers of observation doesn't mean they can do it - lots of sports coaches can see the problem but may not have the physical ability that an athlete has.

But that sports coach may not have the experience to know exactly how to solve the problem. They have the theoretical solution, but not the step-by-step practical solution. And that's why some of those gurus get trashed - they can tell you what's wrong, but not how to fix it.

- Bill

Well put, Bill. I've found that the most effective writers on *story* are those who can convey the broad truths about it in relatable, specific ways. The most effective on *screenwriting* understand how to *execute best* the *techniques* that best impart the story information.

[Randall_Oelerich]

I'll throw in a reply-- I have read almost every guru on screenwriting, I have studied all the how-to methods on beating, outlining, sequencing, carefully structuring a story before typing FADE IN. A couple of days ago i read this book which takes an almost opposite approach (not entirely)-- recommending to stop outlining, stop spending so much time listening to guru methods, stop spending weeks and months structuring, stop spending months writing the screenplay. Not saying I necessarily agree with the author's take on this, but I found the read (took less than an hour on my kindle) interesting and thought provoking. Use or lose, just thought this was germaine to the subject of gurus.

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[wcmartell]

That's another thing about teachers - each may have a different method of teaching and one may work for you and another may not. In the end it is always about results - what method you use to get those results doesn't matter. If you can write without an outline and end up with screenplays that sell or get you assignments - that's what you should do. If what you are doing isn't working - try something else until you find the method that produces results.

- Bill