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    #31
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    Lance's experience is the way it's supposed to be -- import it properly, and it will be absolutely seamless, guaranteed.

    I suspect that the problem here is in Vegas's importer.

    I don't have Vegas 11, but I have Vegas 10, so I'll try doing a long clip and import in Premiere CS5 and Vegas 10 and see if there's any difference at the split point.


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    #32
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    Okay, here's the situation: I recorded a 31-minute spanned clip on an AF100 (the only AVCCAM camera I have near me at the moment). I recorded PH mode 1080/24, and I made sure there would be audio in every single frame by playing a music track on repeat.

    This resulted in a spanned clip, composed of 4GB 00015.MTS, and a 463mb clip 00016.MTS. Combined, their duration is 31 minutes.

    I then copied the entire PRIVATE directory over to the hard disk.

    I then imported the footage into Vegas 10 and Premiere CS5, each in two ways: the "proper" way (Device Manager in Vegas, Media Browser in Premiere) and the "wrong" way - meaning, I dragged the .MTS file directly out of the stream directory and brought that into the timeline.

    Results:

    Premiere "wrong":
    I right-clicked in the bin, and chose "Import". I selected individual .MTS files on their own (i.e., not part of the AVCHD PRIVATE folder directory structure). Premiere reported the wrong file duration (10:32 for 00015.MTS), so we already know this is gonna fail, but -- on to step two. I imported both clips, and butted them together on the timeline. Glitch. Dropped audio.

    Fail. Don't do it this way.

    Second attempt: I right-clicked in the bin, and chose "Import", and then navigated into the PRIVATE->AVCHD->BDMV->STREAM directory. I encountered two files, 00015.MTS and 00016.MTS. They were recorded by the camera to be two parts of one spanned clip, and ideally should be presented as one clip to the user, but were shown as two. This right here lets me know this is going to fail, but ... let's press on. The preview properties for 00015.MTS show a clip length of 10:32:10, which is wrong, so... again, Fail. This is the wrong way to do it, and we're having that assessment reinforced every step of the way. Regardless, I imported the clips to the bin. In the bin, clip 00015.MTS shows up with a duration of 31:07:12. That's much better. Oddly, that is a different duration than Vegas reported (31:09:00) but ... well, onwards, I suppose. The disturbing thing is -- both clip 00015 and 00016 are in the bin, and they BOTH show a duration of 31:07:12. So perhaps Premiere knows they're a spanned clip and has linked them together, but instead of hiding the spanned portion, it's displaying both as individual identical clips. Blah.

    Last test -- is there a gap? There is not. Premiere, even though imported the wrong way, still knew that it was a spanned clip BECAUSE IT WAS IN THE PROPER DIRECTORY FORMAT, and stitched the clips together. The downside to this "improper" way of importing, is that it created multiple duplicate clips in the bin. Not the worst way to go about it, but there is a better way.

    Premiere "proper":
    In the lower left window is a "Media Browser" window. I used that to navigate to the top of the PRIVATE directory where the footage was copied. Upon double-clicking into "PRIVATE", Premiere immediately recognized the contents as an AVCHD directory, and brought up icons and clip names for each clip. However, it did *not* bring up an icon for clip 00016, it only listed 00015. Exactly as it's supposed to! It also recognized the proper starting timecode of the clip. I then dragged the clip from the Media Browser window up to the bin. It shows one clip, not two -- i.e., no bogus duplicates. And that one clip has a duration of 31:07:12. And there is no gap in the audio. It is imported exactly as you would expect, a single proper clip with no flaw, no gap, no split, no problems.


    Vegas "wrong":
    I tried the "File->Import Media" function, and navigated into the STREAM directory. It brings up two clips, 00015.MTS (which it knows is 4GB, but erroneously reports the clip length as only 10 minutes and 32 seconds!) And 00016.MTS, which it knows is 463mb, and gives a record time of 3:36, which is probably about right. Note, Vegas has already failed here (in that it doesn't recognize a spanned clip as a spanned clip), but I chose to import them into the bin to see what happens anyway.

    Once imported into the bin, Vegas now believes that 00015.MTS has a duration of 27:33:05, which is much more promising. However, when imported into the timeline, it does indeed show the last 11 frames as having no audio. Fail. But, at least there is audio in there through most of the clip (all of it but the last 11 frames).

    Should you just trim off those last 11 frames? NO! Because the audio doesn't line up! I tried that, trimming off the audio-less frames and butting the two clips together, and the result is a glitch.

    In all possible ways, direct importing of the .MTS files through the "File->Import Media" method have been a complete fail and I urge everyone to AVOID this method.

    Method Two: Dragging files from the STREAM directory directly to the timeline: FAIL. Exact same results as the "File->Import Media" method.

    Vegas 10 using the "proper" import method:
    I used View->Device Explorer. It recognized the SDHC card as an "AVCHD device". When I browsed through the files, it brought up "00015" as a single clip, with a duration of 00:31:09. Now that's more like it! No mention of 00016, as there shouldn't be; 00016 should be an "invisible" part of the spanned 00015/00016 pair. So at first glance, it looks like it will work. It gives the file size of the combined/spanned clip as 4.652 GB, another promising sign. So I selected that one spanned clip and told it to "Import Selected Clips". It brings up a dialog box saying "Importing Files", and it's taking a while... clearly it is copying the files off the SDHC card onto the hard disk in the scratch folder somewhere. The result of this import is one big contiguous file, with a new name: "00015_20120903_153028.mts". So it is not 00015.mts, or 00016.mts, but an entirely new file named after 00015, plus the date, plus some other six digit number. Fine, but the big question is: is there a gap?

    There is not. The clip is seamless, from start to finish, perfectly flawless, no gap, no dropout, no error. It is exactly as the camera recorded it.

    I am disappointed, however, to report that the timecode was apparently not retained in the clip. I used the Sony Timecode effect, and it didn't report the actual SMPTE timecode that was recorded in the file, instead it reported the first frame of the clip as being 0:00.

    I was unable to figure out how to get the Device Explorer to see the hard disk image instead of the SDHC card image however.

    In summary, my advice to anyone using Vegas and spanned clips: never ever ever ever ever import the files by dragging the files from the STREAM directory into the bin, and never ever ever try to import the files by using File->Import. The *only* way that I found to successfully import spanned clips, was to use the Device Explorer.

    For Premiere users, you simply really MUST keep the entire PRIVATE directory, and ideally you really, really should use the MEDIA BROWSER to import your footage. There's no downside to doing this, and the upside is that you will always have properly-stitched-together clips, you'll avoid spanned-clips bugs, you will avoid duplicate clips in the bin, and everything will just WORK properly.


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    #33
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    Hi Barry

    Awesome!! No wonder they call you the "guru".... Yes in Vegas 10 I also had the same issue with the Private folder on the drive....using Device Explorer, mine found the files and yes, there was the gap again!! However, pull the file off the card and it's perfect!!!
    Hmmm I wonder if Vegas 11 rectifies this ..I too only have 10-64bit

    Thanks again for yours and Lance's hard work and hopefully the OP will have a big smile on his face!!

    Chris


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    #34
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    Alternative Solution.

    Use Edius. Never had a problem just dragging the clips in out of a folder. All the long form have joined perfectly.

    Cheers,

    Vaughan


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    #35
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    But EDIUS will still require the complete directory structure, or it won't know how to span clips, surely?

    If you have a spanned clip, try copying both pieces to a totally different directory (like c:\temp or someplace) and then import from there. I would bet that you'll run into the same empty-audio frame stuff at the end of the clip and no automatic joining...


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    #36
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    I obviously made a mistake in my last previous post, and referred to having no audio for the last 11 seconds of a file, when I really meant to say 11 frames.

    Been so busy lately that I've been online real late, and was tired after a long day.

    Anyway, I just wanted to correct that.
    Canon Vixia HF G10. PANASONIC AG-AC130 . PANASONIC GH2 AND GH3 . Nikon D600. Adobe Premier Pro CS 6
    Canon Directional Stereo Microphone DM100 . RODE VIDEOMIC PRO . AUDIO-TECHNICA BP4029 STEREO SHOTGUN MICROPHONE


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    #37
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    But EDIUS will still require the complete directory structure
    Yes Barry, sorry, I should have been clearer. I always copy the complete file structure to the hard drive off the card.

    Vaughan


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    #38
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    Thank you Barry for the excellent detailed information on the proper method of inputting files into Vegas. I was trying to use the explorer window on the tabs at the bottom of the timeline and was unaware of the device explorer in the view window. I had downloaded a trial copy of Premier Pro and the files went in seamlessy. I then saw your post and using the device explorer in the view window the files all joined flawlessy as one clip with no dropouts. I had previously used the explorer tab in the timeline task bar for importing clips from my GL2's and my Firestore recorder and that all worked seamless but just dealing with avi files from the Firestore. I still don't understand why Panasonic's AVCCAM viewer won't seamlessly extract the files but at this point it doesn't matter since you have gotten me on the right track and I'm now able to seamlessly add my clips. Thank you Barry and everyone who offerred much needed assistance.

    Jerry


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    #39
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    That is great news!

    At this point, I think that we can reference Shakespeare:

    "All's Well That Ends Well"
    Canon Vixia HF G10. PANASONIC AG-AC130 . PANASONIC GH2 AND GH3 . Nikon D600. Adobe Premier Pro CS 6
    Canon Directional Stereo Microphone DM100 . RODE VIDEOMIC PRO . AUDIO-TECHNICA BP4029 STEREO SHOTGUN MICROPHONE


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    #40
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    Sweet! Glad we were able to solve your problem!


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