Clients who request many edits

[Paper_bag]

I'm sure all you guys have been there. So what's the secret?

You spend days on an edit, and the client hates it, so you have to start from scratch. They then request just a little change which takes you another day. Then another change. Then change their mind and want it reverted to an earlier version.

If the original quote you gave just covered one day of editing, how do you politely tell someone they're being unreasonable if you find you're putting a ridiculous amount of time into an edit?

And I don't think it's always that easy, by the way, to work out what a client does and doesn't want in advance. Often they don't know what they want, or they don't realise something won't work until they see it, etc.

[morgan_moore]

IMO..

you have a brief

To produce a 2.00 min film 'a day in the life of Joes Pizzaria'
Outlined
vox pop of three customers
interview of head chef
interview of MD
interview of trainee

You quote,
Shoot One Day at $zz
Rough Edit, one day at $xx
Locked edit after Client Feedback 1/2 day at $yy
Additional edit days at $xx

Obviously a lot more complex in reality
I have also had (and the customer was paying) them sit over the interview rushes and we keyframe/mark quotes that they like for inclusion

[stefanhuberfilms]

Really depends on the budget, and on the customer.

Also had this once, low budget production - shot, edited and sorted out tons of clips - it was a skateboarding event.
6 reviews and related changes! for less than 500 Euros! i felt really exploited - so if they ask me again, i will never do such a job for that less money for them unless its a friend, thats not worth it!

I didn't charge more money, but as i've learned from it, i now charge a per hour, half day or full day price, depending on the changes to make - and I of course write this into the quotation - is this english? sorry!

regards Stefan

[Alex H.]

This should all be covered in a standard production contract/agreement. Morgan sort of touched on what that entails, but to be a little more specific:

You should have a rate sheet for all services you provide, based on day rate. $xx/day for production, $xx/day for equipment, $xx/day for editing, $xx/day for graphics design, $xx/day for audio post. When you create a quote for a client, you estimate exactly how many days will be required of each service, and since it's being "sold" as a package with a guaranteed minimum you might knock the day rates down just a little when all is totaled up. In that agreement, you'd typically specify (as Morgan said) a rough edit and then a final edit after feedback. On top of that, you'd include x hours of revision editing (or, x number of revisions) included in the package price. Any revisions past that are billed extra at full rate.

Get this all in writing, up front, and get it signed by the client. If they start asking for more revisions than are provided in the contract, simply bill them for the time.

[mcbob]

Start out with a written contract or terms in writing (sometimes even a simple email message will do). For example, "one edit, two rounds of revision, extra editing incurs extra expense by the hour/day/revision." When you deliver the rough cut, deliver it with a clear explanation of the kinds of feedback you need to successfully execute the fine cut.

Stick to that statement, unless it's because of some silly mistake you made (misspelling a word, flash frames, other sloppiness). At a point, if they don't pay, sorry, their project doesn't get completed.

The firmer and more professional you are, the more professionally you will be treated. If you're wishy-washy, passive, and overly accommodating, people will instinctively take advantage. At least that's what I found in ~3-4 years of being wishy-washy, passive, and overly accommodating.

[Prendi]

Yeah that works in English Stefan. Where are you in IBK? I'm in Zirl... Would be cool to check your work

[Pickthorne]

To the OP's need to politely ask for more money or less editing roundabouts, I guess it depends on the terms agreed upon before money changed hands. One day for billed editing/posting rough cuts/grading/re-posting/phone calls/emails/rendering is rarely enough, so lesson learned there I guess. I've used language like "...understand that I am committed to this project until you are happy, but I am going to start billing for these revisions. Our original agreement was for XX hours of edit time, and we blew through that way back on revision XX..."

But you already know what the problem is, judging from the tone of your last line in your post Paper_Bag.

I do tons of front end planning and storyboarding and shot lists and scripts and schedules and official looking paperwork and PDFs etc. Not because I expect the client to stick to the plan once they see the piece. The real purpose of a plan for anything more complex than a ham sandwich is really just about providing a common point about which everyone can pivot. Which is to say if the client wants to deviate, they have a bunch of paper with their initials that reminds them they are asking for extra work now.

Plus it is part of the job to get people who don't do this for a living to arrive at a place of vision about the final piece, just like you have in your head. And this is done with planning. If you are finding that clients are revising too much for your liking then ramp it up.

[Chris Santucci]

If the original quote you gave just covered one day of editing, how do you politely tell someone they're being unreasonable if you find you're putting a ridiculous amount of time into an edit?

"We have reached (or surpassed) the number of hours originally estimated for post-production. Additional time spent on post will incur an additional $X/per hour charge."

[groveChuck]

All the above, plus 1/3 to start project, 1/3 when shot, 1/3 when edited/delivered.