Pov camera advice?

[firehawk]

I need to replace my SD bullet cams with HD ones:

I need a pov cam that I can mount on a pole to get moving jib type shots during weddings and receptions. Receptions are usually dark with bright colored dance floor lights.
I'll also be mounting it on vehicles, concealing it for aisle walks, jumping over it, aerial type theater/dance shots, and all sorts of things.
For pole cam work I need to be able to see what I am recording so I can get the framing right as I move it around. That is something most cannot do.


Anyway I'm looking at these:


http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produc...et_Camera.html


http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produc...mera_Head.html

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produc...on_Camera.html

The expensive panasonic one is 3mos, 1/4.
I'm wondering if it would be the best quality for the challenges I will put it through, and more easily match with the other cameras i plan to get: hmc150, hpx250. I particularly wonder about the reception dances, as the lighting is so hard there.

[Kolor-Pikker]

The HCK10 is a well-regarded unit... if you're using other Panasonic cameras in the mix, it's probably a good choice, especially given that it's 3-sensor and has a full range of monitoring options.

[firehawk]

Thank you. The hck10 looks like the best choice. Unfortunately it's as much as another hmc150.
But I need a good pov cam for all the special shots I do.
Do you think itd handle reception dances with crazy dance lighting and also theater dances? It looks as though it adjustable enough that maybe it can.
Plus the feature if being able to use it as another external recorder via sdi could be useful as well.

[Kolor-Pikker]

Well it's up to you really, a lot of people even use $300 GoPros to great effect, and they are so cheap as to be disposable for dangerous (for the camera) shots.

Unfortunately it's as much as another hmc150.

But the HMC won't let you do POV cam stuff; you know how technology gets pricy as it shrinks? Actually, it has some nice pros:
-waveform monitor & Vectorscope
-cinegamma
-up to 65ft cable length
-compatible with remote controllers for DVX100, HVX200, HMC150 & HMC40
-BBC broadcast approved

Here's a review I found: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3pXg3j_m504

Not trying to push you for the best or anything, but when it comes to down to business, I like dependable equipment that I know will pay itself back and more. I'd buy this thing myself if I actually did enough POV shots, but I don't...

[ggrantly]

I do believe that the Panny HCK10 has the same guts as the HMC40, HMC80 and the consumer HS900. Though the HS900 is pretty much an auto-cam, it might be another option. I own an HMC40 and can tell you under decent lighting, the image can be stunningly good. In dim light, well not so much, but I suspect it would still be better than a GoPro or or some other lesser cam. There have been many many threads posted about this.

I use the 40 for a b-cam, and often much the way you describe your needs, and it does a great job. For me, the major limitation on the HMC40 is the VF and flip out, they just aren't very good, so I just bought a evf for it for when I have the time to use it. The flip side of that is given some light, this cam can punch way above its weight; it is a full raster image and will be sharper than your HMC150. It cuts easily with a HPX170 after some scene file tweaking and no doubt it would match up well to a HMC150 (both avchd) The 40 is stealthy small compared to a HMC150, but not a true mouse camera by any measure, but you do have XLR audio potential. I have thought about adding a GoPro for those times I need miniature and extra rugged.

Grant

[morgan_moore]

Just chip in my random thoughts.. Im looking to buy a small cam too

-gopro has the market right now - I guess there must be some new stuff round the corner

I dont like the gopro
-fisheye
-high shutter in bright light
-hard to monitor ? Im not sur about this ie the wifi option, but setting a shot can be hard eg if the camera is facing out of a cupboard
I do like the gopro..
-clients ask for it
-its cheap

Next up is this (linked before)
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produc...et_Camera.html

Looks interesting, quite affordable - but I know little of it
Now shooting tethered is great if the op is (say) in the back of a car or suchlike but say for mountain bikes you have to carry/conceal the recorder

Next up Nex5n and 16mm pancake
This would be good in lowlight with a large chip, match a camera like the FS100 or C300 for perpsective
Onboard recording, and a flip out screen may aid composition, Im not sure of the external monitor capables or remote start stop

The extreme thin ness can push the camera right back against stuff like a wall or windscreen

Next up Panny GH2 - legendary image quality for the size

Next up Canon550d
Now we are getting heavy, but with the Okki follow focus and a remote monitor you have incredible control - focus check start stop etc
which you can remove once you are rolling

In summary I dont think its the right time to spend multi-thousand on a POV, Ill probably get a gorpo and something else

S

[firehawk]

Actually, it has some nice pros:
-waveform monitor & Vectorscope
-cinegamma
-up to 65ft cable length
-compatible with remote controllers for DVX100, HVX200, HMC150 & HMC40
-BBC broadcast approved

...

Thanks everyone. I I like the HCK10 for those very same reasons, plus more. One good advantage is that it could be mounted at an event on my remote pan/tilt tripod head and controlled via remote at a distance with zoom, iris, pan and tilt control, without having a distracting camera operator and larger camera right in front of everyone. Or mounted high during an event and likewise controlled where a person couldn't be.

I have been studying several versions of the Gopros as well as Replay, DriftHD, and the VIO and even a Sony Tethered Camera that is a little cheaper.
I just don't think the Gopros can handle the crazy lighting situations. From what I've read they do poorly in low light. The DriftHD test footage looks alright. DJ lighting on a dance floor is tough. Wedding lighting can be tough, and theatre spotlighting can be tough.
My old SD POV cams were CCD and did not cope well with the above scenarios, though made otherwise great "action" and "stunt" cameras, as the afore mentioned cheaper POV cameras would as well.

There are just so many great shots that can be done with a POV camera - high swooping passes, jib-like moves, and much more, but those type shots need to be able to be monitored while performing and thats another area where the cheap POV cameras again fall short.

I think in reality what I will end up having to do is get a couple cheaper POV cameras for the car racing and stunt shots, and maybe the $599 VIO HD or (probably)Panasonic HCK10 for the indoor wedding and theater and corporate work that I don't use an actual jib on.
I wish I knew if the VIO HD could pull it off.

I've see several test videos on the web. Thank you.

I thought the HCK10 had the similar guts as the HMC40/80 and was curious as to how they do. Thank you.
I'll look at the HS900 too to see if it's small and light enough for pole work. I didn't know about it.


My guess is that when I need to get good shots in the wedding and reception, I'll just have someone throw on an LED light on an HMC150 to help give enough light for the POV camera. Hopefully if there is enough light for an HMC150 to get decent shots, it'll be enough for an HCK10 to get decent shots at the same time.

Drift HD told me there is a new camera coming out soon that I need to wait for, but it still won't have a way to live monitor as you record (pole cam use).
I think the HCK10 is going to get the best results, but I'm going to have to wait to buy it until I have enough funds.
It's kind of funny how popular POV cams are now with consumers. Years ago it was a niche. But solid state and MOS has really opened the doors to lower cost and popularity. But being able to use the footage with my other panasonics is important, too, and I think that vote again goes best for the HCK10.

You guys are really helping me figure out what I need to know.

[Kolor-Pikker]

Actually yeah, the HS/HC X900 has the same guts and it only costs $900, which is a point I thought about making, but it has none of the pros I mentioned as well as it being bigger/heavier +50% than HCK10 head and remote operation is impractical... that's what the extra $2177 gets you.

Is all that worth it? Well, Canon charges an extra $1000 for the XF305 vs XF300 just to add SDI and timecode capability which the HCK10 has, and field monitors with waveform capability also add a nice premium.

Oh yeah, the HCK10 is fairly susceptible to CMOS skew (I reckon as much as the hpx300); doesn't stop people from inter-cutting it DLSR and RED footage though.