Why isn't the F3 more popular?

[TimurCivan]

the F3 has a bit more useable dynamic range.

The red has 13, but the bottom stop is pure noise. The dragon chip is supposed to be far cleaner meaning those stops should be useable.

[CharlesPapert]

This is done in a lot of feature films and you'd be very hard pressed to find any differences when actually watching the movie.

I would not say that this is a regular occurrence in feature films, if you are referring to commercial releases. Again: I'm discussing two primary cameras used for principal photography in the traditional sense of A and B camera, not an additional camera that gathers specialty coverage. Great care is taken to make sure that A and B cameras match so cuts don't jump. There are certainly directors who like to create a pastiche look (Michael Mann comes to mind) but I have rarely heard of a studio feature that deliberately chose different cameras for the primary storytelling with the intention of them matching. I'm sure there are exceptions, but I wouldn't say "a lot".

As far as being hard pressed to see the differences--maybe and maybe not. We all see different things. Certainly cameras are growing closer together and log goes a long way to help strip the manufacturer's signature out of the look of a given camera.

As the F3 goes, last year before 60 fps and s-log could co-exist (before last firmware update) I had to contend with high-speed footage with baked-in picture profile mixing with s-log footage shot within the same scene. It took a ton of work in a DaVinci suite with a top colorist to marry the two. And that's from the same camera. If we had had simultaneous angles from two different cameras, it would have been at least as bad.

[LeavingTheCandy]

Timur brings up an excellent topic, and my top complaint with the Red: noise. It is very noisy in comparison to the F3 (which, of course, in near noiseless).
Some fanboys will argue that it's more "filmic" but it's surely easier to add it to a clean image if that's what you want, than removing it when you don't want it.

[Douglas Villalba]

Still wondering why the F3 is not more popular? Just look at the New F coming up thread and see that F3 owners don't understand business. They are all acting like ants around a sugar jar while their investment evaporates with every post on a new toy coming out.
Most of this people don't even make a living with the camera they own. It is just another toy to them. All of that would be fine if it didn't affect the value of my camera.
I think that the F3 is most likely the last camera I ever buy. The way they are popping out new cameras every few month and the cost of renting so low, why buy a camera?
My 2¢

[Richard Allen Crook]

I think the New F thread makes it very clear that there are a group of professionals that see Sony as the best for digital cinema (including myself) but are contantly plagued by a company that refuses to stand on a mountaintop and shout to the world when they get a new product that should be touted as one the best. Sony is not taking the successful marketing example that launched recent RED and Canon products, and leaves all us Sony users with products that their clients never heard of.

[Douglas Villalba]

I think the New F thread makes it very clear that there are a group of professionals that see Sony as the best for digital cinema (including myself) but are contantly plagued by a company that refuses to stand on a mountaintop and shout to the world when they get a new product that should be touted as the "best". Sony is not taking the successful marketing example that launched recent RED and Canon products, and leaves all us Sony users with products that their clients never heard of.

Sony, RED and any corporation will do what is good for their profits. Sony has so many models from consumer to Cinema that any advertising will be defused between all of them. RED only has 2 new cameras and their users are passionate about it.
F3 owners have what is provably the best camera for the money out there and are always complaining. I can tell that a lot of the owner bought a Cinema stile camera for jobs that will be better done with ENG cameras. Then they request it works as an ENG camera.
The only one benefiting from al the requests for new things is Sony that is often introducing new cameras for different niches. They are not being nice when they often introduce new sub F65 cameras. They are just squeezing every penny out of our pockets.
I would do the same. That is business and you are responsible for running your own.
My other 2¢

[starcentral]

Sony, RED and any corporation will do what is good for their profits. Sony has so many models from consumer to Cinema that any advertising will be defused between all of them. RED only has 2 new cameras and their users are passionate about it.
F3 owners have what is provably the best camera for the money out there and are always complaining. I can tell that a lot of the owner bought a Cinema stile camera for jobs that will be better done with ENG cameras. Then they request it works as an ENG camera.
The only one benefiting from al the requests for new things is Sony that is often introducing new cameras for different niches. They are not being nice when they often introduce new sub F65 cameras. They are just squeezing every penny out of our pockets.
I would do the same. That is business and you are responsible for running your own.
My other 2¢

Doug, I agree and I'm willing to bet that's EXACTLY what's happening. The people who wanted a cinema camera got screwed over the people who didn't need the F3 camera but are using it for ENG and hence have a louder voice, and more importantly higher profits seen through Sony's eyes.

Sony's answer is multi-purpose. But what I know is I can not afford an "all-in-one" wonder cam like the next generation F3 which will attempt to solve all problems from many angles. ie. high internal bitrate codec, detachable relocatable VF, 4k, etc..

In the end I bought myself an insurance policy this week for $7100 from RED and we'll see where the path goes.

We sure live in both exciting and frustrating times that's for sure.

[Douglas Villalba]

All I can tell you is that I will use my F3 until there is a technology that really makes a difference.
I have all the accessories I need to use it as a cinema camera. My KiPro Mini is part of my camera. I shoot everything ProRes HQ and color grade with Color. I have a $2,300 Panasonic 8" on camera monitor as well as 21" Panasonic SDI production monitor. I shoot cinema style even before the DSLR and S35 cameras. I don't care to do run and gun or any mode of ENG. That is the reason why I bought the F3.
My F3 was paid with the first job I bought it for. When I get a job that would pay for an F65 then I'll buy it, but it has to be an investment not a Toy I want.

[starcentral]

C'mon Doug, you know you wanna... come drink the koolaid with me!

hehehe

[Tata Steva]

$7100 from RED

????