Why isn't the F3 more popular?

[CharlesPapert]

Great post Harry--made me laugh a few times!

As far as I'm concerned, owning a particular camera is neither a badge of honor nor a membership into a club. It's just a piece of gear that gets the job done. I don't begrudge RED owners or users their satisfaction in the product. I would however like to see a professionally-oriented support system for their gear other than reduser, which is far too exhausting (and frankly irritating) to weed through.

I feel like I can wrestle decent images out of most cameras on the market--there's a lot of solid choices these days. Some are just easier to deal with than others.

[Grug]

Richard, I think when it comes to marketing yourself (and your camera, if you only use the one), the best thing to do is to let your demo reel do the talking. When that doesn't work, and when you bump up against things like the Red 4K marketing hyperbole, your best bet is to simply quote out in full the additional post-production costs of handling, processing and storing RAW footage.

It's the reason I'm yet to actually shoot a project in RedcodeRAW, on each of the 4 projects I've shot with Red cameras (Red One and Epic) we've ended up recording to ProRes on external recorders because the client hasn't wanted to pay for the additional costs in post (after I've explained them in detail).

As for the F3's popularity, I gather it's actually very popular (with external recorders) for TV production (if not feature films). It's just been Sony's loss that they crippled the camera (in most broadcast people's eyes) by putting a 35Mbs codec in it, rather than the broadcast approved 50Mbs codec found in their shoulder-mounted XDCAM range. It's for that reason the C300 is going like the clackers for broadcast production at the moment.

[Duke M.]

For me one large reason to prefer the F3 is that here we can talk about the pros and cons of each camera and not have it become a flame war.

On Reduser if you dare to say any camera is better than any Red camera its as though you insulted their girlfriend when it's simple physics. If you put more photo sites on the same size sensor the photo sites have to be smaller = less low light sensitivity.

When Philip Bloom sent his new Red cameras back to Red Camera company (because all the footage around a campfire was useless while the F3 footage was perfect) you'd have thought he was an assassin aiming at the queen.

I'm small and indie. This tool means I can spend less time and money on lighting. Sure I still use lights, but its less fussy=less crew and a smaller package. If you have a 10 million dollar budget, great. Different tools for different jobs is all.

[Derek Chingwell]

It would be good to hear from Timur Civan on this.

He liked the F3 and then also got a Scarlet. He's recently added an Epic into his camera kit.

So his views would be interesting

[Richard Allen Crook]

Good points! Again I don't want to make this about bashing Red or this camera vs that camera. All these cameras are fantastic. I'm just bringing up the fact that the F3 just doesn't have the buzz like these cameras, nor do I see it being used on more mainstream films and tv...and wondering why.

So far in the discussion it seems the marketing and the limitation of the onboard codec are the primary culprits.

[eddavid]

one camera is not the best for every job. Each job should dictate the camera. I own 2 f3s, but will try to shoot on Red when I want the resolution for image stabilization or the Alexa when there is a decent crew for it. The F3 is by far, the best run and gun cinema camera I have ever used. So I use it a lot. Do I like the imagery I get out of it. Yes. Sometimes I wish it had more native resolution but for me, I can't think of a more energy efficient, light-weight camera that gets a damn beautiful look. Plus it has built in ND filters! Yes for that. But Red is wonderful too. I love a lot of the things I've seen shot on red. Why can't we all get along?

I think people get turned off that you want to ideally use an external recorder with it. And the C300 is well, Canon has so much hype right now because everyone and their mother shoots with the 5d.

I don't like the C300 - sorry C300 lovers. I don't like the image out of it. To me, it feels too much like the image out of the 5d. Am I giving it a chance? No, not really.

But I own 3 F3s and I don't really see the need to grab a C300 so I'm not that curious at seeing stuff out of it that looks amazing - and I am quite sure there is a lot of stuff done really damn well on it.

For now, the F3 works for me. And what I am more interested in is learning how to light better, move the camera better, get better performances, and play with different lenses and getting good color and exposure out of it.

[Richard Allen Crook]

one camera is not the best for every job. Each job should dictate the camera. I own 2 f3s, but will try to shoot on Red when I want the resolution for image stabilization or the Alexa when there is a decent crew for it. The F3 is by far, the best run and gun cinema camera I have ever used. So I use it a lot. Do I like the imagery I get out of it. Yes. Sometimes I wish it had more native resolution but for me, I can't think of a more energy efficient, light-weight camera that gets a damn beautiful look. But Red is wonderful too. I love a lot of the things I've seen shot on red. Why can't we all get along?

I don't think anyone would disagree with you...there isn't one camera for every job. The point of this thread (at least what I'm trying to keep it as) is to ascertain why the f3, which I agree with you is a very capable camera, isn't as popular and full of industry buzz like many other cameras. So far it seems to be marketing and the onboard codec mainly. What do you think?

<EDIT> haha looks like you edited your post...and that you and I are on the same page. But why do you supposed out F3s aren't as sought after by producers and directors?

[Fohdeesha]

it's actually used pretty often in episodic work right now...I've seen TONS of f3 rigs on episodic production. Saw two pairs of stereoscopic f3 setups shooting at the indy 500 last year.

They're out there and being used...however there is no "group of enthusiastic followers" (that's politically correct, right?) to make 5 blog posts and marketing campaign out of every shoot they are used on, so the internet generally doesn't hear about it. No offense but yeah...they're out there

[Richard Allen Crook]

it's actually used pretty often in episodic work right now...I've seen TONS of f3 rigs on episodic production. Saw two pairs of stereoscopic f3 setups shooting at the indy 500 last year.

They're out there and being used...however there is no "group of enthusiastic followers" (that's politically correct, right?) to make 5 blog posts and marketing campaign out of every shoot they are used on, so the internet generally doesn't hear about it. No offense but yeah...they're out there

Hey Jon! Which episodic tv shows is the F3 used on? I can't find any, would love to check them out. I'm episodic tv stupid as I rarely watch any of it, lol. And no I'm not offended, why would I be? Good point though that F3 users are a little more above all the hype and pretentiousness, therefore it's not more well known in general. good luck tomorrow by the way my friend.

[CharlesPapert]

I honestly haven't heard of any episodic shows using the F3 other than mine--I know it was used for "No Reservations". They may well be out there, but I would be surprised if was anywhere near a "ton"...!

Actually--I'm even stretching it to call Key & Peele "episodic"--it's more officially comedy/variety.