Built in mics

[BlindDog]

I'm interested in getting a small recorder for gathering ambient sound beds. Generally I would be using the built in mics, so I'm wondering which model has the best ones. Lowest noise? Best stereo? Best dynamic range?
I would occasionally be using the recorder with other mics, so XLR inputs are a must. Cost is a consideration. So I'm thinking of the Zoom H4n or the Tascam DR-40. Comments?

[recordingwhiz]

kinda answered your own question there.

[Jema]

Budget? How important is portability? What other mics? Will you be using a mixer too?

The best internal mics on a small hand-held is probably the Sony D50, but it doesn't have XLR in, which means a mixer or battery box for phantom power is needed. It increases bulk, and cost, but the quality is good. Otherwise, getting a mixpre and going tape out into an olympus or tascam recorder would give good results, but again bulk may be an issue.

The H4n and DR40 both have pretty noisy preamps, which can be very noticable if the mics you want to use have low output. I think a better option would be the DR100mkII. I don't know about the internals on that though, but i would guess they are just as good as the Zoom.

[BlindDog]

Umm... no, not really. Still wondering which built in mics sound best.

[recordingwhiz]

Most of these under $500 recorders will give you very usable audio as long as you take some precautions and the difference between them will be minimal. but what will make a difference is 'shock mounting' as well as 'wind protection' which without you will likely get sound that can be used as a reference at best due to rumble and wind popping. I myself prefer the Tascams over the Zoom based on my history of owning a Tascam DR-07 as a back up recorder which I have used as a basic sound FX gathering recorder with great success. and some people love the Zooms as well, but at this point I think you will enjoy either for that budget. My vote is on the Tascam for other reasons than the mics,

Good luck

[recordingwhiz]

Mics on recorders at this level are very basic and not really comparable to stand alone mics for the most parts. however they are incredibly impressive.

Sound, and what is considered 'Best' is a very subjective thing. what I think sounds great some one else may find not good and vice versa.

at this level its like choosing between a Corolla and a Civic, both great cars but not quite a Benz or a Beemer.

[Jema]

External mics are indeed much better, especially if you want to capture low atmospheres as the built in ones have high self-noise. I own an Olympus LS-5 which is very good quality for the price, but I cannot record birds, wind blowing, distant traffic etc because the self-noise is too much.

As for which handheld has the best internals, again, it's probably the Sony D50. You can find much more on handhelds on taperssection.com.

[drapeama]

I myself prefer the Tascams over the Zoom based on my history of owning a Tascam DR-07

I stand for the Tascam over the Zoom too. I own a DR-05 (pretty basic you'll say) but I've replaced my Zoom H2 for this model. Still, it's better built, seems sturdier and boots quicker (which was a significant reason for me to change). That, and from what I've tested so far, the Tascam's internal preamp is less noisier than the Zoom (which was quite horrible).
When combined to a JuicedLink preamp (which is what I do) you can record clean audio by lowering the mic input on the recorder. Clean audio on the cheap, imho.

[davefisk]

I've found all the ones I've used to be too noisy to be usable (but I'm spoiled) for anything quieter than car engines or other loud things. They just don't work for backgrounds and ambiences. Where I live, I can sometimes here coyotes in the hills at night, and I tried to record them with one of these handheld recorders from my balcony, and the self noise was just too high and the track was unusable. I've used a DR-40, DR-100, H4n, H1, and H2n (that fancy pants surround mic). The Sony D50 comes the closest to usable.

[iain.bason]

Has anyone tried the Oade Brothers preamp upgrades? I don't know whether they would help with the built in mics, but it doesn't seem so hard to carry an external mic along with a portable recorder.