1080p/24 Autofocus

[Jim Simon]

I've been waffling on HD for a couple years now because no one makes exactly the camera I want. But now I'm at a point where I have up pick up an HD camera by July 20th. A used HMC150 is at the top of my list, but I'm a little concerned about it's performance.

I'll be shooting weddings at 1080p/24. I spent all day yesterday trying to find examples on the web, but it's surprisingly difficult to find that specific footage. Can anyone chime in with their experience shooting 1080p/24 in low light?

[ChrisHarding]

Hi Jim

Just bear in mind that most wedding receptions are not "low light" but rather almost "no light" Even with the AC-130 which has a supposedly better low light performance than the 150, you need a bit of supplementary light for stuff like speeches and especially the first dance where the lights are usually dimmed to the extent where you can hardly see, never mind the camera. Whether using 1/4" or 1/3" chips at wedding receptions sadly an essential item is an on-camera light if you want decent footage at almost every reception...I do get the occasional one where they consent to raising the house lights but it's rare!! Be prepared to work in a lot lower light than the 150 chips can handle.

Chris

[sewolla]

Look up event-dv.com, and search for articles on the HMC150 there. One of their contributors, Mark Von Lanken, uses (or used) the HMC150 and has done several test videos showing how it works in actually shooting a real wedding. He is but one that I know of that have used the 150 for high end weddings.

[Jim Simon]

I do have a camera light, Chris. It works well for my Panasonic DVC80 (essentially a DVX100 without 24p). That camera's autofocus works just fine under that lighting at 480i/30. But I need to know how the 150's autofocus will perform in that kind of lighting at 1080p/24. So if anyone can chime in with their personal experience, I'd love to hear it.

And thanks S for the tip on Mark's footage. Hopefully I'll be able to find some examples.

[sewolla]

Jim, I really doubt you can find another cam in its price class with better low light or low light AF abilities. My experience in shooting all manner of concerts and stage productions over the years indicates its really good.

I shot an outdoor concert at night last year where the lighting was really bad. Like three guys manning three spots trying to cover a whole stage for a 60 person orchestra. There was also some ligting from the music stands, but come on now....The AF worked great, and the picture was pretty clean and sharp.

Shot the same event this year and the stage hands inexplicably cut the lights, so all I had for "lighting" was whatever the small lights for the music stands were putting out (!!!!!!!). Then they started playing themes to movies and played back clips from those movies on two 10'X12' screens on either side of the stage. But still no other lighting on the musicians! Came out beautiful, very nice.

No it was not a wedding or reception, but it was some of the most challenging "lighting" I have ever encountered, and I have seen a lot. . It did have some contrast in it due to the way the scene was "lit". A reception, where house lights are turned way down and you have virtually no other sources may present a different challenge, where you just do not have any contrast to speak of.

But wait there's more: Another time I agreed to shoot a medium reading people's futures at a hotel in Anaheim. She did not tell me in advance, but as soon as she started she killed ALL the lights in the room, save for two recessed lights way in the back, worth about 60 watts each. The room was about 16X20'. She then laid her hands on people's foreheads and began working with them, one by one, in almost total darkness while I tried my best to capture something. I could not believe she did that!

It took a lot of work in post using the "Shadow / Highlight" adjust feature in Premiere Pro but I was able to get something out of it. It looked horrible, grainy, noisey, but it was in focus. Shot that one on all auto everything.

Now I shoot mostly in 1080/60i, but there should not be worlds difference between that and 1080/24p. Still I have every confidence that my little HMC150's can do some pretty amazing things even in low light and actually get the focus right. You may need a manual adjust sometimes, but honestly I have not needed to yet in shooting concerts and the like under all manner of lighting conditions. More light is always welcome, but if it ain't an option, the HMC150 is likely the best choice you can make in that price range.

[ChrisHarding]

Hi Jim

Any problems people have found with autofocus, even in good light seems to be restricted to the new AC series ..the HMC series obviously use a different system plus the Leica lens still and I have yet to have a focus issue in full auto after years and years of use..I actually did a surprise 60th on Saturday and it was, as expected, a total lights out scenario until the birthday girl arrived..as she came in the gate I snapped on my on cam light and within 2 seconds I had a razor sharp image in auto!! That was coming from totally pitch black!!

Chris

[Jim Simon]

Good to know, guys. Thanks.

Anyone else familiar with Autofocus at 1080p/24?

[scapsinger]

I've used the HMC150 extensively in manual and autofocus at various events in 24p modes and I can say it performs just about as well as ANY camera's autofocus in 24p shooting. Which is to say that it is NOTICEABLY less responsive than higher frame rate shooting, and this goes for shooting in good or bad light.

The best thing you can do is increase lighting or at least shoot high contrast items. Even in low light, the contrast between a white shirt and black jacket will give you decent autofocus results (decent....it's never "great"). Another helpful thing is to operate as much as possible at full wide angle. The more telephoto your lens is, the more work the autofocus will be doing, and the more lousy your results "can" be.

With all that said, I have actually enjoyed shooting in manual focus on the HMC150 and AC130/160 while having the focus indicator set to FEET instead of the rather less useful 00-99 setting. After a handful of events, I became very comfortable judging distances as I walked around an event in handheld mode. For tripod events it's a bit easier to just estimate (or use the house schematics to figure out the distances, even better!).

You can also get a decent laser measuring device that can be helpful for lockdown shots, and then just measure out your distances that way and never have to worry about autofocus failing.

[scapsinger]

Oh...and I do have one HMC150 I'm still using that I might be interested in selling. Not a lot of hours on this one, but in mint condition either way.