Christopher Nolan crossing the 180 degree line?

[Filmkid2003]

What do you guys think of Christopher Nolan crossing the 180 degree line when Batman and the Joker are conversing in the interrogation room in the Dark Knight? I didn't feel like I lost my bearings as a viewer. It didn't really seem disorienting (not to me anyway) and I can understand why he would do such a thing as a director during that scene since the characters are the protagonist and antagonist. Not to mention, the Joker is supposed to be insane so, trying to disorient the audience a little during that scene would kind of make sense. What do you guys think? Just curious.

[AndrewGentle]

I haven't seen it for a while but I think it probably works because that scene is on a very stark background which is not overly complicated and there are only two very distinct characters in the scene. If we see a shot of the Joker looking off screen then we know, as an audience, who he's going to be looking at. If you had more characters or complicated backgrounds then it may not be so easy to get away with.

-Andrew

[Filmkid2003]

Agreed.

[Finnegan]

and I can understand why he would do such a thing as a director during that scene since the characters are the protagonist and antagonist. Not to mention, the Joker is supposed to be insane so, trying to disorient the audience a little during that scene would kind of make sense.

Nolan crosses the line in this scene in OTS using a slow, creepy dolly (or slider) move. He does it in Batman's OTS of Joker, and Joker's OTS of Batman while they're both sitting down and facing each other at the interrogation table. I don't think he does this because Batman and Joker are protagonist and antagonist like you said...that's just a fact of the plot. I think what he's trying to do is suggest an underlying relationship the two characters have with each other. In my opinion, the camera move implies the characters are mirror images of each other, or that the characters are fundamentally tied to each other.

This notion resonates in other parts of the film, at one point Joker even says it to Batman...

Batman: Then why do you want to kill me?
The Joker: [giggling] I don't, I don't want to kill you! What would I do without you? Go back to ripping off mob dealers? No, no, NO! No. You... you... complete me.

It also goes back to the characters' backstories in the comic books. Part of what makes Joker such an incredible villain for Batman is that he's the both the dark reflection of Batman's whole ideology. Nolan knows this, he actually discusses it a little bit in the Batman Unmasked documentary. I think that breaking the line in this scene is a brilliant way to make a poignant suggestion about the relationship between those two characters. A perfect example of when/how to break the rules.

The reason it works is just as the people above me said. It's a pretty simple setup: two characters, Batman and Joker, facing each other at a table in an interrogation room. Once the audience is established in the scene you can really move the camera anywhere you want (within reason) and not disorient the audience greatly.

[David Parsons]

For people like me who don't know, what do you mean by "crossing the 180 degree line"? Thanks.

[gonzo_entertainment]

For people like me who don't know, what do you mean by "crossing the 180 degree line"? Thanks.

First, haven't watched in a long time, but if you show the line cross with a camera move... It's not a line cross. That's how you get to the other side without "Crossing the line" you show the move to the other side instead of just appearing there.


There is a wiki that explains it.
The basic premise is that when things switch left/right orientation on the screen it's jarring to the audience, like a jump cut. If you do it for no reason it will disorient the audience. Though it can be used on purpose when you WANT to disorient the audience.

[Crafters of Light]

Simple explanation

[maranfilms]

you can cross the 180 line all day long if need be. You just need to show the audience your doing it. And it you dont show them, well then thats when they become disoriented. BUT..... here's the thing I have noticed, with all the vids lately on youtube and the net, with so many amatuer filmmakers with gross disregaurd for cinema rules, people are becoming more used to it, and sterting to fill in the blanks, kind of like a jump cut. Anyways, it can still be disorienting none the less for us people that follow the rules, which you must know before you can break and get away with it.

[ReelFilmGeek]

Lets just say this, that scene in the dark knight wasnt as bad as when they broke the 180 degree rule in the hunger games during that one scene with rue (trying to not spoil)

aslo here's another interesting video about the dark knight and when it breaks the 180 degree rule and causes confusion in the car/truck sequence: http://vimeo.com/28792404

[David Parsons]

Thanks for the posts! I get it now.