Cross post from Gh2 thread..."Need some audio help"

[Car3o]

Hello all --

I post here every now and then, chiming in to help others, and I hope some of you can return the favor and help me sort out my Gh2 audio. I just shot a short over the last few weeks and still found my audio to be sufficiently lacking.

Here's a quick setup.
Rode NTG-3
ART USB Dual Pre: http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/USBDualPre/
Edirol R 09 recorder: http://www.rolandus.com/products/pro...?ProductId=757
I tried one time to feed the audio from the ART directly into the Gh2 and was too to hot. So I just went to shooting it separately.

Some things I've noticed is the audio is very low. When I monitor, it's very hard to hear. When it's recorder, it's very low. What's the deal? If i turn the gain up too high on the ART, I can hear background noise everywhere, and then the talent gets drowned out. All outdoor shots. What are some solutions? Should I trade in my ART and Edirol and go another route? Ugh, the one thing I have yet to learn and master is the audio aspect of filmmaking. It's so crucial, too. Anyway, go easy on me, explain things like I'm five. Help a buddy out. Thoughts please. If you need, I can upload an audio clip to help give you an idea of what I'm facing.

[ajcourtney]

We run multiple outboard audio options with our gh2's, but for ultimate portable outboard recording, I prefer using our tascam dr680 as a portable multitracker. Works well and the audio is first rate. Mic pre's are pretty darn good although the monitoring isn't the best. But with good mics you'll be pleasantly surprised once you dump your audio into your nle.

Also, you set your mic preamp based on your source level which is completely independent of your monitor level. If your recorder doesnt output enough for monitoring purposes, the first place to look is whether you inadvertently backed off the track output in the mixer section of the recorder if it has one. Then check your impedances of your cans vis a vis your monitor output.

[Richard Crowley]

... the audio is very low.

Under what conditions? Exactly which combination of equipment? Connected how? Powered how? Control settings what?

When I monitor, it's very hard to hear.

When you monitor where?
Do you have the phantom power turned on at the ART preamp?

When it's recorder, it's very low. What's the deal?

Connected how? The NTG-3 has XLR output, but the R09 does not appear to have XLR inputs? What kind of cable are you using?
The R09 does not have phantom power for the mic input. How are you powering the NTG-3 (which requires 48V phantom power)?
If you are not providing the NTG-3 microphone with 48V phantom power, the first question is how you are hearing anything at all?

If i turn the gain up too high on the ART, I can hear background noise everywhere, and then the talent gets drowned out. All outdoor shots. What are some solutions? Thoughts please.

My first guess would be that you aren't providing the NTG-3 microphone with proper phantom power. Do you have the phantom power turned on in the ART preamp? Do you get the green "signal" LED flashing when you speak into the microphone?

I tried one time to feed the audio from the ART directly into the Gh2 and was too to hot.

The ART appears to have only line-level outputs, and your DSLR camera has only mic-level inputs.
You need to attenuate the ART output back down to mic level to feed your DSLR.

Should I trade in my ART and Edirol and go another route?

The ARTpreamp should be able to power the NTG-3 microphone properly. You appear to have no other option for powering the NTG-3 microphone.
The Edirol R09 doesn't appear to be doing anything for you unless you feed the audio into it properly.
To feed either the R09 or the DSLR, you need the proper cable to take the output(s) from the ART preamp, attenuate it, and feed it into the 3.5mm mini jack mic input (on the DSLR or the R09).

If you need, I can upload an audio clip to help give you an idea of what I'm facing.

That is never a bad idea.

[Car3o]

The combination of equipment was listed in my initial post. The ART was providing the phantom power. Yes it was on. The mic wouldn't pickup any kind of audio if it wasn't.

The setup goes. NTG-3 into XLR input. A stereo cable from the output into the Edirol's line input.
We monitored the audio from the Edirol, cause it only allows sound through the headphones once it's recording.
The LED lights flicker when there is audio, yes.

Is this the kind of attenuate cable I should get:
http://www.sescom.com/product.asp?it...N2MIC-ZMH4-GH1

Would I feed that directly from the ART into the Gh2?
And is there a less cumbersome battery-powered single channel preamp like the ART that is around the same price?

I was looking at this, but would like something more affordable in my budget:
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produc..._Portable.html

Here's probably the best clip of them all. The echo was probably due to it being in an alley:
https://docs.google.com/open?id=0B5h...TZfcmVzcVZUUkE

[TheDingo]

I tried one time to feed the audio from the ART directly into the Gh2 and was too to hot.

How much GAIN did you use with your ART pre-amp ?

You should be setting the MIC LEVEL on your GH2 to 1, and then adjust the GAIN of the ART to give you a good audio signal with your NTG-3.

If the signal from your ART is too hot, then you are going to have to add a pad to bring the signal level down to something the GH2 is OK with.

For my GH2 set-up, I use a Sound Devices MixPre to power and amplify my micrphones, and then I feed this at LINE LEVEL from the MixPre to a BeachTek DXA-2S which allows me to adjust the input signal strength to something the GH2 gets along with.

If you were to buy this stuff today, the MixPre is now a "MixPre D" model which can output MIC or LINE level ( so the BeachTek can be skipped if you like ) and the BeachTek DXA-2S is now a "DXA-2T" which is slightly improved.

[Richard Crowley]

What about monitoring the audio at the ART preamp? How does the signal sound at that point?

Exactly what stereo cable did you use from the ART to the Edirol R09? How do you know it was the right one to use?
From what output of the ART preamp are you getting the audio? From the "headphone" output, or from the "monitor" output?
If you were using the headphone output, did you have the "Mix" control turned all the way to "Preamp" and the "Level" control all the way up?
We don't know any of these things unless you explicitly tell us and guessing is just a waste of time and will get us nowhere.

Can you turn up the gain on the ART to the point where the red "clip" LED flickers? If not, then something is wrong before you even get out of the ART preamp.

You can feed the output from the ART into either (or both) the R09 and the GH2. With the proper cables (and attenuators, etc.) of course.

There is certainly almost nothing better than a Sound Devices product. But you shouldn't need to spend that kind of money to get decent audio signal. There is something more fundamental wrong. Until that is resolved, even a premium Sound Devices preamp won't help you.

As for your sample, how far away was the microphone from the actor? Shotgun mics are not magic wands. If you were more than 18-24 inches away, then you were too far to use a shotgun.
Was the green "SIGNAL" LED on the ART preamp flashing while they were talking? Do you get decent level from the ART preamp before feeding it into the R09 or the GH2?

[Car3o]

The ART gain was at 40, any higher, there was too much BG noise.

[Richard Crowley]

The ART gain was at 40, any higher, there was too much BG noise.

Then either your microphone was too far away, or there is something wrong with the microphone or the mic cable.

[Car3o]

What about monitoring the audio at the ART preamp? How does the signal sound at that point?

Exactly what stereo cable did you use from the ART to the Edirol R09? How do you know it was the right one to use?
From what output of the ART preamp are you getting the audio? From the "headphone" output, or from the "monitor" output?
If you were using the headphone output, did you have the "Mix" control turned all the way to "Preamp" and the "Level" control all the way up?
We don't know any of these things unless you explicitly tell us and guessing is just a waste of time and will get us nowhere.

Can you turn up the gain on the ART to the point where the red "clip" LED flickers? If not, then something is wrong before you even get out of the ART preamp.

You can feed the output from the ART into either (or both) the R09 and the GH2. With the proper cables (and attenuators, etc.) of course.

There is certainly almost nothing better than a Sound Devices product. But you shouldn't need to spend that kind of money to get decent audio signal. There is something more fundamental wrong. Until that is resolved, even a premium Sound Devices preamp won't help you.

As for your sample, how far away was the microphone from the actor? Shotgun mics are not magic wands. If you were more than 18-24 inches away, then you were too far to use a shotgun.
Was the green "SIGNAL" LED on the ART preamp flashing while they were talking? Do you get decent level from the ART preamp before feeding it into the R09 or the GH2?

Monitoring from the ART was just as weak as the Edirol.
You ask the questions, I'll answer. I'm learning the ways of the audio. Not trying to waste anyone's time.

I used a standard stereo cable from guitar center. How would I know if it's not the right one?
I'm getting the audio from the monitor outpout and straight into the Edirol.

I will test the red "clip" led function.
The mic was probably 2 feet away.
The green singal was flashing. I don't know what you mean "did I get a decent level from the ART?"

[Car3o]

Then either your microphone was too far away, or there is something wrong with the microphone or the mic cable.

What should the gain be at, theoretically?