AC130 & AC160 Firmware upgrade dilemma

[sanorman]

I am considering upgrading my firmware to take advantage of the new 1080/50P shooting mode.

However, I understand that Panasonic have restricted this update to AC160's only.

I'm a wedding videographer using both a AC130 and a AC160.

So as I understand it, even though I can now shoot in 50P with my AC160, I am stuck with 50i with my AC130.

Can someone confirm this is correct?

If so, surely it wont be worth me upgrading my firmware at all, as I wouldnt want to mix the footage on the Premiere timeline.

Between this and the awful auto focus, I am beginning to wish i spent my £7000 with Sony or Canon!!

[Mike Warren]

I'm a wedding videographer using both a AC130 and a AC160.

So as I understand it, even though I can now shoot in 50P with my AC160, I am stuck with 50i with my AC130.

Can someone confirm this is correct?

That is correct. But since it doesn't cost anything, why don't you update anyway? You are not required to use 50p, it's just an option, and it might come in hand at some point.

[ChrisHarding]

Hi Sanorman

The AF is actually quite good in normal light but I do agree that it's utterly hopeless in low light..My two HMC82's were way, way better...in Churches I use the "Push Auto" and manual and it seems to be fine but the performance in low light is really bad...I shoot on one camera in manual anyway and use the second for cutaways and I'm used to shooting in auto for that...once you are outside in bright daylight you can switch to auto and it will work well..I haven't had any issues in decent light at all!!! A neat trick is to disable AF in the auto menu .. just set it to off ...AF still works as long as the front switch is on auto..when to get to a tricky situation you can simply switch to manual and then once that's over go back to auto as well!! With focus assist on in manual, focussing is pretty easy but I do agree that if auto is provided it should work in all instances of reasonable light.

It's just a matter of adapting your work flow during a wedding...I struggled with having to change ND's the whole time also as the HMC82's have auto ND's

I know that there are people here that keep saying you shouldn't use auto but they haven't been thrown into a chaotic wedding with things happening all around you (solo too!!) and you just don't have time to fiddle with controls!!! The bride and groom suddenly get to the kiss (all of 3 seconds!!) and by the time you grab the second camera cos the main cam is blocked by some photo mad guest, you just have time to frame and nothing much more!!! If you had to expose and focus first the whole thing would be over!!!

Chris

[dhardjono]

I know that there are people here that keep saying you shouldn't use auto but they haven't been thrown into a chaotic wedding with things happening all around you (solo too!!) and you just don't have time to fiddle with controls!!! The bride and groom suddenly get to the kiss (all of 3 seconds!!) and by the time you grab the second camera cos the main cam is blocked by some photo mad guest, you just have time to frame and nothing much more!!! If you had to expose and focus first the whole thing would be over!!!

Chris[/QUOTE]

I agree with you Chris some time you need auto focus.
I use manual iris 100 percent of the time with the auto focus not reliable i use mnual auto focus or push auto focus and some time i forget about composing my shots because busy with the focusing and iris especialy when a photographer or a guest get in your shot and you have to zoom in the cut them out of the shots.

[ChrisHarding]

Sadly, a shot of the above-mentioned kiss is also totally useless if it's soft!! I had the exact issue last Saturday where the photog simply popped up in front of my main cam to catch the kiss (BIG SIGH!! this was the "official photog too...hubby buys them a Nikon for Christmas and they are suddenly professional wedding photographers!!) I managed to catch the kiss on my second cam but the image is decidedly soft!!! I guess the low light and slow auto just didn't give the camera enough time to focus..I seriously would have thought that Panasonic would have kept the same AF as the older cameras but maybe the big lens needed sometime different...their video about the focus issue sees a definately "let's baffle the user with technical issues" approach and talks about the focus being different as it relies on contrast...but the bottom line is that it really is horribily un-reliable unless you are in plenty of light and even outdoors you dare not leave the camera in AF either...it shifts and hunts all the time if the camera and subject is static..they would have been far better to just omit AF altogether and sell the 130/160 as a pro camera with manual focus with the "push auto" feature only rather than make excuses about the system. The only time AF works faultlessly is when you are in good light AND the camera is moving! (It works perfectly on my stedicam) but definately not to be used on any sort of static shot like a wedding ceremony!!! If any new models come out without any drastic improvement I might also head towards using a Sony EX-3 ..despite the cost!!

Chris

[kwkeirstead]

Soon as I can get my camera upgraded to AC160A, I will check out the changes and see if there are any unannounced improvements in the upgrade.

There are two references I found re "Push Auto" in Barry's book.

Page 29 says you must "press and hold . . until the autofocus locks in". Same page, it says "use the AREA function to tell the autofocus system what section of the screen you want it to focus on".

Then on page 206, again, "pressing and holding the PUSH AUTO button. The longer you hold.... the longer autofocus will remain active".

So, it looks to me a simple one-time push is not sufficient but it seems reasonable to deduce that with AREA function in use, autofocus MIGHT take less time to do its thing because it has a smaller area to scan.

I will consider the 160 to 160A upgrade worth the $300 if the only improvement in the kit turns out to be that you need only do one push instead of push and hold (too much of a distraction if you are doing several things at the same time).

I was able to confirm Chris' statement "A neat trick is to disable AF in the auto menu .. just set it to off ...AF still works as long as the front switch is on auto..when to get to a tricky situation you can simply switch to manual"

Looks like there are 3 scenarios
1. AF ON in the menu (bad idea - leave it OFF)
2. AF ON via the switch (allows you to toggle back and forth between ON to MANUAL)
3. PUSH AUTO and AF goes ON and will do it's thing (PROVIDING you hold the button in long enough for it to work out a focus and lock this in ???)

Re #3 - does this mean if I press and hold for an insufficient time, I will end up with my focus at some arbitrary position - if this is true then it is really important to watch it and make sure it has settled down before you release the button - (IMO this would make for a very risky outcome unless you watch the hunting very closely).

I have yet to succeed in having AF focused on something static and see it "get bored" with its setting and move to something else but I would very much like to test this.

[Barry_Green]

If you push the PUSH AUTO button, then the camera goes into normal autofocus and stays in normal autofocus until you release the button. If you release the button prior to the camera achieving suitable focus, then yes, releasing the button will leave it in its current not-focused state.

The 130A/160A upgrade change the behavior of the PUSH AUTO button. It acts a lot more like a stills camera at that point -- it locks in right away. It's really, really fast, and it snaps into focus.

[kwkeirstead]

Fanastic, hopefully the kits will arrive in Canada soon. I keep checking but no one seems to be able to give me a date.

I like the way you say things work on the Ac160A.

[ChrisHarding]

Hi Walter

For what you film (your choir groups) I would most definately use manual....what happens with AF is that it does a great job (IF the light is enough and the contrast is adequate) and finds focus....Try putting the camera in a room with something solid...say a big vase or similar about 15' away and then autofocus (use a bit of zoom otherwise the DOF is so big that you won't see any change) .... the camera will, after around 5 or 10 minutes, decide to look and see if the background behind the vase might be better to focus on and will do a refocus ....With wedding couples, especially oudoors, I have a medium to close shot of just two people facing each other and in the centre are things like trees which are a lot further away. With your ladies groups you MIGHT not have the issue as the AF doesn't have a situation with something near and something far so if it changes focus from the front row to the back row, due to the big DOF of video cameras, you probably wouldn't see the shift.
My push to focus button works fairly fast ..OK not turbo fast but it will lock in within a few seconds....your distance meter runs around and then stays still..soon as it's steady (and viable (the reading says 3' and the subject IS 3' away) I let go....

Maybe try the push for auto in various situations and see how long it takes???? An upgrade might not be totally necessary...with two cameras I certainly won't do it as for me the focus time manually seems good enough!!

Chris