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    #31
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    I think P2 would be much more viable if Panasonic would release a USB3.0 or eSATA version of their single slot USB2.0 reader. It works just fine for what it does, but USB2 is so long in the tooth that it's annoying to sit there and wait for the footage to transfer.

    eSATA, even with the necessary AC adapter, would be really awesome and would remove a big issue I currently have with the format.

    However, I am happy that Panasonic has developed microP2, especially considering you can get an adapter for the older cameras. Moreso if I can find out that microP2 can work in typical SD card readers (i.e. the built-in one on the 15" MacBook Pro).


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    #32
    Senior Member Jan_Crittenden's Avatar
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    Hi,

    In 2005 the 4GB card was just under $2000. Today a 64GB card is less than half of that.

    I believe that the SD card readers that are able to read Class 10 cards will be able to read the Micro P2 with a little bit of Software Driver.

    Best,

    Jan
    Jan Crittenden Livingston
    Panasonic System Communications Corporation
    Partner Sales Manager, NY and NJ


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    #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jan_Crittenden View Post
    I believe that the SD card readers that are able to read Class 10 cards will be able to read the Micro P2 with a little bit of Software Driver.
    Excellent news. Thanks, Jan!


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    #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jan_Crittenden View Post
    In 2005 the 4GB card was just under $2000. Today a 64GB card is less than half of that.
    I can't find 2005 data for SSD, but I can find 2007 data for SSD & P2.

    According to this Panasonic Press Release & this Tom's Hardware article:
    In 2007 a 32GB P2 card list price was $56/GB & the cost of SSD was $40/GB.
    In 2007 P2 costs 40% more than SSD.

    In 2012 a P2 64GB card sells for $630 or about $10/GB. A 64 GB SSD drive (blessed by BlackMagic to be fast enough for uncompressed HD footage, not just some random cheapo drive) costs $125 (or less) or about $2/GB
    In 2012 P2 costs 500% more than SSD.
    ---

    In the last five years P2 prices have gone down 75% while SSD prices have gone down 95%.

    ---

    But back to the subject of this thread... I can get a SSD "reader" (aka enclosure) for $20-$50 with USB 2, USB 3, or Firewire. Or spend $350 for Sound Devices's Thunderbolt enclosure (+ $100 for the Pix caddy). The same price as a USB 2 P2 reader (I guess the P2 reader is cheaper since you don't need to buy the caddy too, but still slower).

    I really wish that there was more news of a P2 reader at NAB that was closer in line to what SSDs can offer. I'm glad the AJ-PCD2GPJ exists, but damn is that thing slow & feels out dated when I look at SSD workflows. And the price of a faster P2 reader is about the cost of an off camera recorder.
    Last edited by zijital; 05-17-2012 at 01:07 PM. Reason: formatting
    Where are all the S-VHS hipsters?


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    #35
    Senior Member Jan_Crittenden's Avatar
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    Hi,

    Arguing that the cost of the P2 card should be the same as a SSD is simply like arguing that Apples should taste like oranges. They are not the same sort of device in architecture or function. An SSD does not do parity checking, error Correction or Concealment. Nor does it have a Raid controller.

    The only viable comparison on P2 is to itself and it has come down in price over the course of the years.

    The offload devices are what they are and they work. If you need the faster device, then perhaps the purchase of the faster device is in order.

    While it would be nice, at this point in time it is not available.

    Best regards,

    Jan
    Jan Crittenden Livingston
    Panasonic System Communications Corporation
    Partner Sales Manager, NY and NJ


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    #36
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    I have been convinced that the P2 cards are the way to go. When I see the work from the P2 based cameras, and in communicating with Jan, I have to say that there is no doubt in my mind about the medium being sound. I just had to be a bit more convinced and I am now. I just placed an order for more P2 cards. I guess you buy into a complete ecosystem when you go P2.

    In the end I still think we need USB 3 or thunderbolt on the card readers, but I will wait. Jan, thank you for taking the time to talk with us on the these forums. I appreciate your presence here.
    Last edited by BillinSC; 05-18-2012 at 02:37 AM.


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    #37
    Senior Member Mark Williams's Avatar
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    Your comparison of the quality of video shot to SxS cards and P2 cards does not make sense to me. The EX3 can produce excellent video as can P2 cameras in skilled hands. I do think P2 cards are robust and that is partially why I bought in to the system. I off load P2 with a $100 Amtron card reader. http://www.amtron.com/reader/pcdtp110cs.htm
    Last edited by Mark Williams; 05-17-2012 at 05:59 PM.
    Regards,

    Mark

    GH5, Panasonic 12-60, 14-45, 45-175, Olympus 60 macro, 75-300, Benro S6 Tripod, Rhino Carbon 24" Slider, and Edius 8.5 WG.
    Video channel: https://vimeo.com/channels/3523
    Stock Video: https://www.pond5.com/artist/mark29#1/2063


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    #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jan_Crittenden View Post
    An SSD does not do parity checking, error Correction or Concealment. Nor does it have a Raid controller.

    ...

    The offload devices are what they are and they work. If you need the faster device, then perhaps the purchase of the faster device is in order.
    Thanks for replying. I'm glad that you have a presence here & I'm hoping that you're passing along the desire for a faster (& cheap) reader. I don't care if it says Panasonic or Lexar on the label, I just want something that works, is priced near other readers & faster than what we can get now for $300.

    I agree that comparing the "guts" of P2 to other flash media is apples to oranges. But if your metric is that your footage is reliably recorded to your media at the end of the day, I can get my serving of fruit if I eat an apple or an orange. Sometimes the bottom line is the most important factor.

    Quote Originally Posted by BillinSC View Post
    Granted, these guys probably did not know what they were doing, but my organization shelled out 5K for a poorly done 12 minute video. I guess you buy into a complete ecosystem when you go P2.

    In the end I still think we need USB 3 or thunderbolt on the card readers, but I will wait. Jan, thank you for taking the time to talk with us on the these forums. I appreciate your presence here.
    If you shot "Citizen Kane" on VHS & "Battlefield Earth" on an Arri Alexa, which one would be a better movie?

    It is a lot more about the craftsman than the tools. The guys that did a horrible job on a EX3 will probably do a horrible job if they shot with P2.

    I've shot a bunch on P2 & it offers a lot of great features. In 2005 I was very much sold on P2 & thought it was perfect fit for ENG. Now in 2012 I'm out of ENG work & the stuff I do means I don't hold P2 in the same "perfect fit" place anymore. YMMV
    Where are all the S-VHS hipsters?


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