Red Epic Vs Sony PMW-F3 Vs Canon C300

[dracalat]

Filippo, grazie mille per la comparativa!

I love my C300, but the Sony F3's latitude on S Log mode + rocorder is a dream - so much room to be creative...and get your ass saved when you have a bad day in the office!

I agree with cowpunk, the F3 is the best camera in the market, but like him I'm not a fan of external recorders (too much 'faffing' and more things that can go wrong). I need a self contained package, and the C300 delivers in that respect. Besides, its latitude is better than anything I've ever had.

It's funny how everyone is complaining about Canon's pricing for its new products - judging Filippo's test, the Epic looks well overpriced!

[jambredz]

wow F3 kicks ass in DR. Epic not so epic at all in this test. I would love to see how the new firmware fears.

[alpi69]

I am on the same page as cowpunk. There is more to the package than the pure IQ (and even there you can argue about it). All these cams produce images we only dreamt of a couple of years ago for a price we didn't even dream of.
Every cam has its place and price. Nice choices for us.

[alpi69]

Filippo, grazie mille per la comparativa!

It's funny how everyone is complaining about Canon's pricing for its new products - judging Filippo's test, the Epic looks well overpriced!

There is not much to complain about when you put the Canon in perspective with others:
REDs.....silly prices for 2012.
F3... Needs s-Log and a Gemini for several thousand euros to be able to actually take part in Filippo's test. Has inferior LCD and EVF, not exactly built for outdoor use, doesn't allow for stabilized lenses and if only with clumsy adaptors.
It actually shoots great DR even without Gemini. I just don't like the camera as such.

C300 misses around 2 stops, maybe more, maybe less. But it has built in C-Log, great EVF and LCD and is ready for outdoor use also. It comes down to your needs and your field of work. But I am sure a C300 looks better on a filmset, than an F3 on deck of a sailing-boat during a storm.

Horses for courses.

[dracalat]

Hey alpi69, I completely agree with everything and that's why I bought a C300. Some believe it's overpriced and they might have a point, but the reality is that there's nothing else in the market that offers what the C300 does so Canon are right with its pricing. End of the story.

People's expectations have become really unrealistic. And all the complaining is just pathetic. Filmmaking has never been so accessible - there's a plethora of cameras, formats, looks, codecs...to suit everyone's needs and pockets, yet some keep on moaning instead of just making the most of what they have available. I just don't get it! With a GH2 (hacked) you can get images that where just unthinkable at that price point 5 years ago (they where just unthinkable altogether), but for many this is not enough. They seem to want a 4K, 4:4:4, 400mbs camera for 4 grand! Whilst I'd love that to happen, the reality is it won't. And even if it did happen, it wouldn't suddenly turn everyone into amazing filmmakers.

Sorry for the late night rant,

D.

[Cory Braun]

F3... Needs s-Log and a Gemini for several thousand euros to be able to actually take part in Filippo's test. Has inferior LCD and EVF, not exactly built for outdoor use, doesn't allow for stabilized lenses and if only with clumsy adaptors.
It actually shoots great DR even without Gemini. I just don't like the camera as such.

The F3 now comes with s-log built in, just as the C300 comes with c-log built in. So that point is moot. And as you mentioned it shoots great DR without an external recorder, so again that point is moot. There are recorders MUCH cheaper than the Gemini (Hyperdeck shuttle is $350 I believe, and the Samurai is $1600, which would still make it cheaper than the C300). Yes, they do not shoot 4:4:4, but they do shot 10bit 4:2:2, so if you're happy with 8bit 4:2:2, I'm sure you'd be just as happy with 10bit 4:2:2. I use PL lenses, so I was not expecting to have stabilized lenses, but yes that would be nice. And the Nikon adapter I have is far from "clumsy".

I have never felt limited by the F3, as I am sure none of you have felt limited by the C300. It has never taken me more than a minute to attach the Samurai to the F3 via the hot shoe, and it doesn't require nearly as much "frankenrigging" as many believe. I would still be adding rails, a second monitor, and other accessories to the C300.

In the end, both cameras are capable of great images. As all of you are saying, the F3 offers more DR and is capable of higher quality images through external recorders, and the C300 is better built, better design, more compact, and one thing that hasn't been mentioned is that it has the Canon name, which is currently much hotter with indie producers than Sony. However, responding to this test specifically, which is testing the cameras' DR, I think it is clear where one the F3's advantages is.

[huski]

The F3 now comes with s-log built in, just as the C300 comes with c-log built in. So that point is moot. And as you mentioned it shoots great DR without an external recorder, so again that point is moot.

Yes, but without an external recorder, you will record an S-log picture with a 35mpbs 4:2:0 codec (because in post you will most likely increase contrast, or apply a LUT on the log picture). So using the S-log - to get the best DR - needs an external recorder in my view.

[cowpunk52]

It has never taken me more than a minute to attach the Samurai to the F3 via the hot shoe, and it doesn't require nearly as much "frankenrigging" as many believe. I would still be adding rails, a second monitor, and other accessories to the C300.

The real beauty of the C300, is that on about 80% of my jobs so far, I haven't even needed to do that! Take camera out and shoot. If needed, plug HD-SDI cable from video village, then shoot.

However, responding to this test specifically, which is testing the cameras' DR, I think it is clear where one the F3's advantages is.

Agreed

[Filippo Chiesa]

The F3 now comes with s-log built in, just as the C300 comes with c-log built in. So that point is moot. And as you mentioned it shoots great DR without an external recorder, so again that point is moot. There are recorders MUCH cheaper than the Gemini (Hyperdeck shuttle is $350 I believe, and the Samurai is $1600, which would still make it cheaper than the C300). Yes, they do not shoot 4:4:4, but they do shot 10bit 4:2:2, so if you're happy with 8bit 4:2:2, I'm sure you'd be just as happy with 10bit 4:2:2. I use PL lenses, so I was not expecting to have stabilized lenses, but yes that would be nice. And the Nikon adapter I have is far from "clumsy".

I have never felt limited by the F3, as I am sure none of you have felt limited by the C300. It has never taken me more than a minute to attach the Samurai to the F3 via the hot shoe, and it doesn't require nearly as much "frankenrigging" as many believe. I would still be adding rails, a second monitor, and other accessories to the C300.

In the end, both cameras are capable of great images. As all of you are saying, the F3 offers more DR and is capable of higher quality images through external recorders, and the C300 is better built, better design, more compact, and one thing that hasn't been mentioned is that it has the Canon name, which is currently much hotter with indie producers than Sony. However, responding to this test specifically, which is testing the cameras' DR, I think it is clear where one the F3's advantages is.

I completely agree with you.
That's what I think.

[Filippo Chiesa]

Take a look to the test.
The F3 has a true Log; the C300, has not a true Log.
The C-Log seems like a gamma correction.
Because of this crucial point, the C300 4:2:2 on-board recording is not so better than the F3 4:2:0 one.
Please, take a look here: http://www.xdcam-user.com/2011/12/ca...ared-to-s-log/