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    I'm sorry... but the last few paragraphs sound like someone clinging onto the good old days.

    There is alot to learn from the audio and still image transition to digital.... This shouldn't be coming as any shock to you.... jobs will be lost and other jobs created, skilled individuals will make it work or adjust.
    stylecreative.net - Designer/Video/Music bloke


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    Quote Originally Posted by Jay Birch View Post
    I'm sorry... but the last few paragraphs sound like someone clinging onto the good old days.

    There is alot to learn from the audio and still image transition to digital.... This shouldn't be coming as any shock to you.... jobs will be lost and other jobs created, skilled individuals will make it work or adjust.
    +1 adapt or get left behind.


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    When I look at the ocean, I see the waves coming again and again and hitting the shores. They go back only to come again, taking small bits and pieces of sand/earth with it. That is life. Life doesn't mean standing still. Life means a movement, a change towards better. We have to evolve, we have to adapt. Else, we will be thrown into the dark corners of history which nobody cares to read.

    You feel the pain that someone who hasn't ever shot in film, is now competing with you. That is life.

    I feel extremely happy that the new age tools empowers people. A person who has a dream in his/her heart can now stand up and showcase his/her work. I am not saying that he/she competes with you because I think a person should only try to unleash his/her potential. That will take you to your dreams.

    Quote Originally Posted by cowpunk52 View Post
    Adapt or die; nothing stays the same.


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    Also... surely talented grips, etc will be required whether shooting a film on a DSLR/C500/Epic or a huge film camera?
    stylecreative.net - Designer/Video/Music bloke


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    FilmDude, you make some compelling comments, and I agree with a lot of what you've said. There does seem to be a healthy dose of luddite thrown in, though. (And I'm a bit of that myself concerning many fields.)

    I do find it puzzling that you mention high-end television production, actually start the list with House MD, and then fail to mention the season finale where they shot the entire episode, not E/F/G cam, on 5DMKIIs. Kind of goes to the heart of the matter of a big budget show not willing to try something new. (This thread is so long, maybe that was dealt with earlier?)

    Also, as another poster said, FilmTools is pretty synonymous with big production in town. I'd not dismiss their comments on what's going out the door so lightly. DSLRs and their spawn are here to stay for use in all production budgets.
    Last edited by jmmusic; 05-15-2012 at 09:22 PM.


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    Well.....I'm glad to hear your view from the east coast....as for some of your opening statements, I'll clarify from my end. NCIS-LA shoots with the Alexa (a few) and they bought a camera from me (w/ the cinevate plate) to add to their stable. I agree with you that a typical situation on the set in a 1 hour show where the A camera is covering the wide and the matching B camera is the close up/ long lens one. Often I hear that a show is an "Alexa" show, using multiple Alexas (2nd unit is off somewhere) and then they refer to a second camera they are using for special circumstances as B cameras.......so some of this argument is semantics. Anyway, NCIS-LA did buy the camera to use in B camera situations....night, tight spots, car mount, aerials, etc....so I think we can let it go at that. The strong codec that the C300 uses closely matches the ProRes 422 codec that is used on most 1 hours here in town ....and that, along with this camera's amazing low light capabilities, is why so many shows are investigating the C300. As for features, Ron Howard is shooting his latest on the C300....and I could list quite a few features in the lower to medium budgets (2-10 mil) that are shooting with the C300 as the A camera, some just because of the low light advantages.

    Jim Martin
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    PS- I suspect that you will be at Cinegear so maybe you'll come up to me and introduce yourself...we'll be on one of the stages with the C300 all dressed up.
    Last edited by Jim Martin; 05-15-2012 at 02:40 PM. Reason: clarify


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    Quote Originally Posted by FilmDude View Post
    I'm very old school if you haven't noticed, and I'm trying to protect the industry I love and work in. Also realize that going cheaper usually means less crew as well, which effects jobs, and lives, and careers, and the whole industry. Keep the cameras big, and on chapman dollys and technocranes and let them be a bit*h to carry so you need assistants and PA's and gear for carts and all of that. Eliminating these things directly eliminates JOBS for the peopel who love what they do.

    The digital age kindof snuffs the industry for jobs, and already there's a few positions that got hurt from the digital movement, and its a shame. Keeping the same high quality standards for our cameras in our department is very important. It keeps the quality up, and the best behind the cameras operating, pulling, lugging, and using that gear. Renting those extra parts, ordering more camera carts which all this money goes right back into the industry. It feeds off of this.
    The digital camera revolution is also creating jobs. More people are picking up cameras and making movies. Yeah this is mostly at the low budget end but it creates opportunities for bigger budget productions down the road. The D90 and 5D MKII were an important factor in my decision to quit the music business and get into the film industry. Now after 2 years of film school and 18 months writing a screenplay I'm looking for funding for a $3 million feature. I'm shooting it with a 5D MKIII, C300 or 1D C, and possibly an Alexa for a couple of shots in the Arizona desert. The crew will be quite small but I'm still creating work for a lot of people and bringing a lot of money into the country.
    Last edited by squig; 05-15-2012 at 07:28 PM.
    http://vimeo.com/squig GAMMA The Years of Darkness screenplay Official Selection of 2014 Beverly Hills Film Festival. Filming 2014.


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    I am a working union member in the industry. Here are the facts as I have experienced them.

    I just finished a pilot for NBC. 2 Alexas, 2 canon 5D MKll's and a couple of go pro's

    Every job, studio and major network, I've done in the past 2 years has had a 5d on it. It gets in places other cams can't.

    No jobs have been lost in any departments from the film to video transition. And thats not the union keeping those jobs alive. Its manpower thats needed. In fact there may be more positions in the camera and video departments because video cams need new support where film did not.

    Theres no adapt to die crap to this, its just a similar but different tool with the same support needed with a couple of new positions added to make the same product.


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    Quote Originally Posted by FilmDude View Post
    Lets make this clear, I'm the type of DP that can tell film from digital even up till now. And up until recently even the best digital shoots still felt digital. There is a special feel to the way film is handled when its shooting, and its not something you can put into words. But there is a rock solid feel to the motion, and a very pleasing strobe. You can read TONS of articles from major cinematographers complaining about the 24p in digital still doesn't feel the same as 24p from a film camera.

    Thats the type of level of quality I'm talking about, and thats the kinds of differences we're talking about. I'm not saying you cant. I'm saying at a higher level up in the field, a dp just wouldn't want to use any other camera but the best of the best to get his/hers image.

    I can see a bunch of skew in "The Raid" but I can also tell it looks like some post work was done to add post shake to the camera to allow for that same dramatic feel without the jello.

    Its just like the audio engineers who can hear pitches and differences most others cant, you have to know what you're looking at, and thats the big difference. If you can't tell, then this isn't a discussion for you. But if you can tell, then you'll most definitely be on my side of the story.

    There's also this big gap being made between "professional" industries. Perfect example, NAB vs. CineGear EXPO. HUGE diffence in the people attending. Theres no real hollywood guys hanging out at NAB, sure maybe a few here and there, and theres so great fun cool stuff thats really helpful. But the NAB side of thigns is very much on the prosumer side of things in the "Film" world. Whereas CineGear expo is very different. Those are the big toys for the big shoots. Thats the gear used and invented for heavy pro use for feature film and tv that we all watch and love for years and years.

    There's just a different level, even "pro" no longer means what it used to. Digital has separated a lot. It used to be everyone just knew 1 thing... Film.. It was the same no matter where you were in the industry. You still had to do the same thing on a low budget set as you did high budget set for film. Now there's people who are cinematographers who've NEVER shot on film. They dont even know where this gear spawned from, and not learning why film is what it is.

    I'm very old school if you haven't noticed, and I'm trying to protect the industry I love and work in. Also realize that going cheaper usually means less crew as well, which effects jobs, and lives, and careers, and the whole industry. Keep the cameras big, and on chapman dollys and technocranes and let them be a bit*h to carry so you need assistants and PA's and gear for carts and all of that. Eliminating these things directly eliminates JOBS for the peopel who love what they do.

    The digital age kindof snuffs the industry for jobs, and already there's a few positions that got hurt from the digital movement, and its a shame. Keeping the same high quality standards for our cameras in our department is very important. It keeps the quality up, and the best behind the cameras operating, pulling, lugging, and using that gear. Renting those extra parts, ordering more camera carts which all this money goes right back into the industry. It feeds off of this.
    My department is not the imaging and I can tell the acquisition too, sometimes even the capture device, brand, model, year of manufacturing :P so... nobody can say I am the owner of the truth. But don't put the digital out of the range of 24fps, there's nothing behind the curtain ;-)

    The massive industry, the high-end as you call, has been killing the cinema. Not only the internet. Their product, most part, is s*%t. You disdain the indies, but they are who has made the history of filmmaking since the golden days of hollywood, already passed away decades ago. Why? 'cause the high-end guys are the geekest of the geeks. They don't give a damn for aesthetics, they don't even understand the meaning of the word. I am not speaking towards you, of course : ) But "the" industry you praise so much to protect. They are also but definitely NOT 'the' cinema :-) With the due respect (again, I am not inferring you are one of them, I don't even know your name! ;) mercenaries who think they have, but they have no clue about it. They could be selling soap with the same joy, I guess. For some reason, stories became soap operas for such purpose. Saving jobs. Re-invent the 'thing'! I am used to call it work instead. I make it happen, I am not waiting for the ringing sound of the telephone. Since about 20 years ago. And yes, I spend 70% to 90% of my time with boring stuff. Some call it life, others... to survive working with art. Not an inscription in someone else's payroll.

    End of rant.

    A last note, all my background is old school too
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    Quote Originally Posted by FilmDude View Post
    its not about you "CANT", its about using the right tool for the job. Learning that the camera is your paintbrush and paint, and if you dont use the right kind you're only hurting yourself. SKEW is a huge problem for any camera, having the best and fastest read speed on higher end cameras would be best for action and fast moves. Sure you can do that with a cheaper camera, but then you'll have skew. Mechanical shutter removes this issue, thus why I'd pick an F65 or Alexa with shutter for the job. Maybe to YOU skew is not that big of an issue, but to someone who is an videophile and cringes at the thought of straight lines going sideways, and jello motion...
    Right. Imagine now this made with a global shutter... : D


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