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    Senior Member SergeSmArt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LiamR View Post
    I didn't quite understand that, but did you just say the film look is created by shallow depth of field?
    NOT only by shallow depth of field, of course ... but it's one of the main reason to get that effect... when I see moives I notice how often this used to create sharp MAIN OBJECTS on more or less BLURED background... any good directors use it.. to operate with our attention... Why would we don't want this option ?

    ( sorry, maybe my English is not good enough to explane what I mean ? )


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    Quote Originally Posted by SergeSmArt View Post
    NOT only by shallow depth of field, of course ... but it's one of the main reason to get that effect... when I see moives I notice how often this used to create sharp MAIN OBJECTS on more or less BLURED background... any good directors use it.. to operate with our attention... Why would we don't want this option ?

    ( sorry, maybe my English is not good enough to explane what I mean ? )
    I understand now, I don't agree but each to their own.



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    You certainely have to learn few more things...

    Quote Originally Posted by SergeSmArt View Post
    Don't know much about black magic camera, but since I found it's small sensor size, I don't have ANY interest in it... the same I feel about Red Scarlet camera ( in it's fast frame rates) ... Take a look what I mean:


    The main reason for create "film-look-like" effect is NARROW DOF we have in film cameras.. produced by very FAST cimena lenses ... and what Canon 5D camera was able to produce with even F2.8 lenses - as it's sensor size about 2.5 times bigger !!!.. without this Canon initiative we probably DO NOT HAVE our FS-100, not C-300, not F3, FS-700, C-500 TODAY!! .. and do not forget, that if we want the same DOF as 5D produce on our Super-35 sensor cameras we need at list F 1.8, F1.4 or F1.2 lenses!! .. So ? What we can get on really small sensors? .. the same as we have on regular camcorders before ?? ..don't know about you.. but I don't want even look to that side!

    Someone think I'm wrong in it ??


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    The flimsy viewfinder on the FS-700 (that Pappas demonstrated in his great video preview) would really bug me as I have the Sony EX3 and I love the form factor of that camera out of the box.

    It would need an evf which I will probably end up getting for my new 5D3 anyway.

    The footage is great on the Fs-700 and I too would love it to use for the slow motion as I shoot sports.
    I'd say it would be easy enough to match the look to the EX3 as the main wide camera.


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    Quote Originally Posted by SergeSmArt View Post
    Don't know much about black magic camera, but since I found it's small sensor size, I don't have ANY interest in it... the same I feel about Red Scarlet camera ( in it's fast frame rates) ... Take a look what I mean:





    The main reason for create "film-look-like" effect is NARROW DOF we have in film cameras.. produced by very FAST cimena lenses ... and what Canon 5D camera was able to produce with even F2.8 lenses - as it's sensor size about 2.5 times bigger !!!.. without this Canon initiative we probably DO NOT HAVE our FS-100, not C-300, not F3, FS-700, C-500 TODAY!! .. and do not forget, that if we want the same DOF as 5D produce on our Super-35 sensor cameras we need at list F 1.8, F1.4 or F1.2 lenses!! .. So ? What we can get on really small sensors? .. the same as we have on regular camcorders before ?? ..don't know about you.. but I don't want even look to that side!

    Someone think I'm wrong in it ??
    Yeah, I dunno man Super 16 looks plenty cinematic to me and the BMD sensor is bigger than that.....
    "That's what happened to this friend of mine. So he had a lobotomy. Now he's well again."
    http://www.robmneilson.com


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    Quote Originally Posted by robmneilson View Post
    Yeah, I dunno man Super 16 looks plenty cinematic...
    Naa, that's just the grain, you can add that in post


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    "if we want the same DOF as 5D produce on our Super-35 sensor cameras we need at list F 1.8, F1.4 or F1.2 lenses!! .."
    So much misunderstanding with respect to terminology.
    Image characteristics of 'filmic' (AKA cinematic) look.
    - Shallower DOF
    - More Bokeh
    - Focus racking
    - Subject/Field contrast
    I'll take each in turn..
    - Shallower DOF / More Bokeh
    While it's indisputable that 4/3 sensor (and smaller) result in logarithmically greater DOF than full frame, Super 35 actually delivers a much closer rendition of DOF to the human eye given the same brightness of ambient illumination, considering that the eye is roughly 50mm focal length equivalent. So my money goes to super 35 for 'realism', even though yes, you will need faster lenses to achieve comparable bokeh and DOF to full frame which in fact not a realistic vision mathcing look but sure a more filmic look for certain scenes. Indeed, with a 4/3 sensor the predicament is even more pronounced.
    - Focus racking (As a result of follow and racked focus)
    Focus racking is the process of suddenly pulling focus between a near and far subject to draw attention to a different actor or subject in the scene. This effect is most pronounced with shallow DOF, BUT it's still effective as long as there is some selective focus between foreground and background.
    - Subject/Field contrast (not to do with exposure)
    This is the result of a lens being very close to the near subject and much farther from the distant one. The greater the Subject/Field contrast the shallower the DOF. I bring this up because I have a had great success creating a 'filmic look' focus rack, even with substantially small apertures (f3.5) and small 2/3 sensors by employing WA lenses close to the foreground subject.
    So... my point is that there are pretty decent work-arounds to the absolute restrictions of a sensor, with respect to DOF/Bokeh. The filmic look is about more than blindly pull focus or selective focus with large sensors and wider apertures. It's about a range of parameters one of which happens to be selective focus and a perceived Subject/Field contrast- which is created with several techniques, even with smaller sensors and smaller apertures.


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    I ordered a BMCC and I'm pretty pumped about having both it and the FS100 at my disposal. I think the FS100 will be a much better fit for documentaries, night shots and (by default) slow motion. But for short films and any instance where I want a truly 'filmic' look, I think the BMCC is a great alternative. Sometimes, I have contemplated getting a GH2 or mkII/III just b/c there is something slightly more natural about it's rendering than the FS100. Judging from those dusk street shots, the BMCC should even destroy those 2 in that capacity.


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    Quote Originally Posted by SergeSmArt View Post
    Don't know much about black magic camera, but since I found it's small sensor size, I don't have ANY interest in it... the same I feel about Red Scarlet camera ( in it's fast frame rates)

    The main reason for create "film-look-like" effect is NARROW DOF we have in film cameras.. produced by very FAST cimena lenses ... and what Canon 5D camera was able to produce with even F2.8 lenses - as it's sensor size about 2.5 times bigger !!!.. without this Canon initiative we probably DO NOT HAVE our FS-100, not C-300, not F3, FS-700, C-500 TODAY!! .. and do not forget, that if we want the same DOF as 5D produce on our Super-35 sensor cameras we need at list F 1.8, F1.4 or F1.2 lenses!! .. So ? What we can get on really small sensors? .. the same as we have on regular camcorders before ?? ..don't know about you.. but I don't want even look to that side!

    Someone think I'm wrong in it ??
    Do I even have to mention the biggest money making film in history - Avatar - was shot on 2/3" 3-CCD Sony Cine Alta cameras? As was Star Wars- Ep. II - Attack of the Clones?
    Yeah, I guess I do.


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    Senior Member SergeSmArt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by vincent thomas View Post
    You certainely have to learn few more things...
    After all of your reply to my post, I feel like I would never have to say anything else here .... I learn my way from Adnrey Tarkovsky ... but you are talking about " biggest money making film in history " and "Star Wars"


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