Is this CMOS rolling shutter -- and the reason to buy the HMC150?

[TheDingo]

Keep in mind that used HMC-150s are selling around $2,000+, so you might be able to buy used to fit your budget.

[PatrickMcVideo]

Hmmm... the price of a used HMC150 is of course enticing, but I'd be afraid there would be something wrong with the camera and I'd be stuck.

I see that you've got the HMC150 and a HS-700. May I ask, do you use them together as A and B cameras, and if so, does the footage match well enough to not be distractingly obvious to the average viewer? I would imagine you have to do some tweaking if you used the footage together. Also, the HS-700 looks like it is 1080p60 like the TM900, so what are you using to edit your footage? Thanks!

[TheDingo]

The HS-700 records higher resolution, but it's fairly easy to get the HS-700 footage to match by downgrading it to 720p and then matching it to the format I am using with the HMC-150. The biggest differences between these cameras are:

- no-rolling shutter with the HMC-150, so anything with high motion I shoot with the 150

- MUCH better low-light sensitivity with the HMC-150, so the HS-700 is mostly used for daylight or brightly lit interior shooting

- MUCH better camera image controls with the HMC-150

- the HS-700 has MUCH better auto-focus ( handy for quick grab shots )

- the HS-700 has MUCH better image stabilization ( handy for quick grab shots )

- the HS-700 is useful when shooting endless convention/symposium presentations ( 17 hours of HQ HD recording on the hard-drive )

...No matter what, I would buy at least one HMC-150 camera if you need to shoot anything with fast motion in the shot, or if you need to shoot low-light. And used is not that big a deal, as this is a solid-state camera so there aren't many moving parts. ( I would only buy a used camera if it looked and functioned like a brand new camera, which usually means that it was ALWAYS kept in a heavy-duty case when not shooting )

[PatrickMcVideo]

Thanks TheDingo. Very good info. When you "downgrade to 720p" are you doing that with ClipWrap or some other 3rd party utility? And are you editing in FCP by any chance? I'm still worried about getting a 1080p60 camera to work with my system. Thanks.

[TheDingo]

When you "downgrade to 720p" are you doing that with ClipWrap or some other 3rd party utility?

I am Windows based, so I use Sony Vegas Pro and save the intermediate production file using either the Cineform CODEC ( $100 for NEO SCENE for either Windows or Mac from www.videoguys.com ) or use the free AVID DNxHD Lite CODEC ( both of these are cross platform CODEC which work on both Mac and Windows editors ). If I was using Final Cut Pro I would render out my intermediate file in the appropriate ProRes format. ( you want to use a video editing CODEC and NOT a video DELIVERY CODEC which will throw away most of the video information )

[PatrickMcVideo]

Cool. My plan then is to suggest the HMC150 plus AC130 as the ultimate package, and then if the reaction to that is "no way that's too expensive" then I'll suggest the HMC150 plus TM900 package, and then on down to the two TM900 package. Crossing my fingers ...

Thanks again for all the input.

[MadHMC150]

( you want to use a video editing CODEC and NOT a video DELIVERY CODEC which will throw away most of the video information )

Great point here.. You will want to use FCP's Log and Transfer and transcode your footage over to prores. FCP edits prores very well or you can use prores(LT) if you want a lighter codec. THEN export it down, like mentioned 720p and h.264 for web.

[PatrickMcVideo]

I tried to find a raw TM900 file to download and test with my FCP, but I couldn't find one. But it sounds like Log and Transfer will handle it okay. Thanks MadHMC150.

[ejolson]

That's a good point about two TM900's, ejoison. I was thinking two TM900's would be okay, or one TM900 and one HMC150 would be even better -- but -- I'm running FCP 6, and there are apparently issues with the TM900's 1080p60 not being supported. (And it's not even supported on FCP 7 or FCP X.)

I got some extra time to figure this out since my boss left early yesterday and I didn't have to give him my list of recommendations, but I'm not sure what to tell him today. Two HMC150's is totally awesome in my book (or HMC150 + AC130), but I can't have my "budget" recommendation include a camera (TM900) that I'm not sure will work with my software.

Two HMC150's seem ideal for taking videos of cars driving by. As for compatibility, the TM900 also records i60 which should work with most editing softwares. If you wind up with a TM900 you may wish to experiment with the different recording modes. My guess is that p60 may exhibit more skew than the i60 and iFrame modes anyway. I created an illustration of how an image taken with a CMOS camera with read-reset time of 1/60 sec might look. The image is attached below.

[PatrickMcVideo]

Thanks for the illustration. I don't fully understand how you arrived at those results but, if that's the amount of skew at 25 mph, I would guess the skew would be even greater as the speed of the vehicle increases. All the more reason to get the HMC150.

I just saw my boss in the hallway -- gotta get all my facts together and grab him ... (hopefully in a good mood)