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    #21
    Section Moderator Rick Burnett's Avatar
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    I only buy lenses with constant F-stop now. The 7D kit lens drives me crazy which is why I RARELY use it.
    formerly know as grimepoch.


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    #22
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    I specifically mentioned it because the FS100 kit lens has a non-constant aperture. I use nikons on mine, all with constant f-stops. IMO, the kit lens cripples the potential image capable with the camera.


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    #23
    Cinematography/Lighting Mod Ryan Patrick O'Hara's Avatar
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    Hmmmmm k. I posted the article.

    It is what it is. For those who know a thing or two about lenses, it's business as usual with maybe a few fun facts. If you are new to cine-lenses, this may be rather helpful.

    Either way, enjoy.

    If cinematography wasn't infinite, I'm sure I would have found the end by now.


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    #24
    Cinematography/Lighting Mod Ryan Patrick O'Hara's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by David W. Jones View Post
    The growing trend by lens manufactors as of late is to brand still lenses as cine lenses.

    Take a CCTV lens, rehouse it in a body with a popular mount, paint a sexy racing stripe around the barrel to get attention, and puff, you gotta cine lens.... Not! But people are like cattle and once someone posts how bitchen the lens is with a low res video everyone wants one.

    Sorry I digress.
    Yup. Recently I had viewed an advertisement for a 'cine' lens... which wasn't a cine lens. Hence this rant.
    Clearly they don't know what a real cine lens is.

    Quote Originally Posted by Moseph View Post
    More iris blades
    Not necessarily. Despite many thinking "polygonal bokeh = lens fail", that has historically not been the case. I'm not sure where this theology came from, but historically most cine lenses are semi-polygonal when stopped down, and although roundish, not what we see with these new 14 or 18 bladed apertures. RPP's have 7 blades, all cookes have 8 (5/i's might have 9), superspeeds and standard speeds at one point had 6 and 9, then 9 and 6. Ultra Primes have 9, as do MP's I think. The CP.2's, and a few others go the extra mile and have large numbers, like 14 or higher. I personally like Cooke's strangely shaped 8 blades.

    To me, it's not about what is cinema and what isn't. It's about personal taste.

    It seems many like round and a select group love octagonal. I don't think any iris design can be labled cinema

    Quote Originally Posted by TheDingo View Post
    ...Should budget and crew size be a factor in this discussion ? ( Cine lenses are not usually compact or light weight )
    Yes. It should. The bigger the production, the more these lenses are worth it. Not only because of uncompromising image quality and consistency, but because big productions spend massive amounts of money every minute. Thus the time saved by having cinema lenses on set translates to time saved in a day. Cinema lenses make lens changes very quick, and helps the AC with focus by being more accurate and informative.

    Quote Originally Posted by David W. Jones View Post
    How does the old joke go... Something like, how many ACs does it take to put on a cine lens.
    Two. That is the perfect number.

    Quote Originally Posted by morgan_moore View Post
    On the fora I like to push the other argument !

    Now I know sometimes in business you have to just buy the right tool

    Over the years I have bought some tools, a 4002.8 when I was photographing football as a 'kid', a Sound Devices recorder when doing a series of interviews with a DSLR, a hasselblad H and lenses for my photographic studio, what about a proper cine zoom ??

    With my FS100 I have been ripping myself apart with still lenses

    Bad focus travel , growing zooms that hit the filters in your matte box, pinging nuns knickers.. it all sucks

    I can see and feel every little thing that makes cine glass wonderful

    Now its to me an economic decision.

    You and your crew have X hours in the day and Y dollars in the bag

    Every move of a follow focus, readjustment of the matte box, bum focus pull - it all costs you in your day

    Reduces the productive footage shot - cine lenses save money

    Now I really thought about this, but it seems that 98% of shoots have other things that they could spend their money on

    Better art, more time, a better location, more lights and grip

    Honestly I think cine lenses just don't add up on a lot of shoots.. of course they do on some

    A well selected set of old still glass really is, however, a very good choice in many circumstances

    S
    You have good points. I would never tell anyone to rent cine lenses over properly feeding a crew or paying for something the production really needs. The larger the budget, the more they are spending per minute. Thus, the larger the production, the more they can afford your lenses, and the more the lenses, in return helps save money. It is really a strange graph of benefit. The bigger you are, the bigger the gain in savings.

    I think you're post is a great one and you fully understand the point I try to make. These lenses help save time and money, but that time and money saved grows in importance as the production size grows. It's tough when you are just on the fence and struggle to weigh the justification.
    Last edited by Ryan Patrick O'Hara; 01-28-2012 at 09:26 PM.

    If cinematography wasn't infinite, I'm sure I would have found the end by now.


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    #25
    Senior Member hscully's Avatar
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    Great article, hugely informative and concise. Thanks for posting it.


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    #26
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    Brilliantly done, Ryan. Thanks for taking the effort and the time to explain it all so thoroughly. In a day and age when so many people are embracing "workarounds" and claiming that the "shortcut" method is "just as good," your article clearly illustrates exactly what the differences are, it educates the reader, and it empowers them to now make an informed choice and to understand the compromises. Well done.


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    #27
    Senior Member Egg Born Son's Avatar
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    It is unlikely I will ever get my hands on cine lenses, rented or otherwise but I learnt a lot about lenses in general here. You crystallised a couple of things I've been half understanding from books and cleared up some things I've been noticing as I experiment. Great article. Thanks.


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    #28
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    Thanks for the write-up Ryan, the part about vignetting was new to me. Very informative all around.


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    #29
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    While a great post and very informative and the end of the day these are all only tools. If you sat home and waited to buy a $20k lens then your project would never get made. Work with what you have, learn, grow and understand. In my honest opinion I have seen excellent movies shot on very basic equipment and it shined. No one can question the quality of cine lenses and gear, but if all you have is a basic kit lens then do your best to make it work. Don't let the "gear" stop your vision.


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    #30
    All about the Caption Terry_Lasater's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ryan Patrick O'Hara View Post
    My computer crashed when I was writing it and now I've got to re-write half of it. This will be posted hopefully by this time tomorrow. I gotta walk away because I might throw my MBP through my window.
    Maybe your next article should be called Why We Need To Save Frequently When Creating Computer Documents.

    Just kidding. Good job, Ryan.
    Practice safe filmmaking; use a concept.


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