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    #21
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    I'm with Phil on this, apart from the sensor. Personally I'd be happy with an HPX250 with a M4/3 sensor - great fixed lens, good body design, good sensor. Maybe increase the AVCHD rate, or if the product was right step up to P2 for AVC Intra. I love my Af101 except for the lenses - would much rather have one good quality fixed lens.


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    #22
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    What if Panasonic would make an AF250? Micro 4/3 chip with a fast 20x zoom lens built in


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    #23
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    I guess the whole point of my post was that from what I see, Panasonic already has ALL the technology required to make a great camera, but this technology is spread out over several other cameras. My reasoning for the S35 sensor was low light (FS100 sees in the dark practically) and available lenses....if it keeps the cost of the camera of the camera down, keep the 4/3 sensor instead.

    The technology is already there:

    -take the sensor from the GH2
    -add AVC-Intra 100MBps 10-bit 4:2:2 (to SDXC as a bonus, but P2 would work also)
    -put it all in an AF100 body.

    I'm hugely unimpressed with the C300's specs for $16k. It seems Panasonic has all the pieces of the puzzle built already -- they just need to assemble the puzzle....and it wouldn't be that expensive to do so.


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    #24
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    "What's wrong with M4/3? I still don't understand why this seems like such a big handicap to people."

    Well, there's obviously a few -

    - No one wants to lose anything off of their lenses, particularly wide ones. Fast, good, wide glass costs an arm and a leg. As the 4/3 micro effectively doubles perspective, that means something like the 14mm 2.8 Canon (costing around $2,000) becomes a 28mm. Not fun. Sure, the S35 also does the same thing, but to a far lesser degree.

    - Lack of native glass. Simply put, there isn't a whole lot to choose from, and what's there tends to be pricier then a comparable Nikon or Canon. Again, fast, sharp and wide m4/3's lenses are very few and far between - not to very pricey.

    - Add to that smart adapters that are only now hitting the market (and the fact that they're minor investments in their own right), and it can reasonably be called a negative.

    - 4/3's glass is good on one type of Camera - 4/3s. You won't be porting over any of that glass to any other sort of mount 10 years down the line to a Canon or a Nikon or a Sony (at least as things stand now). It's 4/3's or nothing...

    - ...And considering that the format has only existed for about 4 years, it should make any one take pause before any would be investment in 4/3's glass. Only two large companies currently use the format, Panny being the only "true" video camera maker. The other company - Olympus - may very well go bankrupt due to criminal corporate book keepings. Compare that to Nikon, which has well over 400 lenses (not counting 3rd party glass) and has been around for 50 plus years, or to Canon's EOS line - which has been around for 25 years and has something like 200 lens (not including 3rd party) available, and the the 4/3s doesn't look so good. Both companies have 10's of thousands of bodies out in the wild - probably hundreds of thousands. M4/3's not close in that comparison either.

    That's a track record that means one thing - you know you'll be able to sell your Canon or Nikon lenses down the line. Every brand-new Nikon AF lens, except for G lenses, works fine on a Nikon 1959 F body.

    - Notice that I haven't referred to the quality of the current m4/3's cameras and that's for a simple reason - anyone who's been in the biz for any length of time will tell you, it's your investment in glass that really matters, not what camera is currently the hot s@#* - because 4 years latter, that camera will look ancient - but good glass is practically forever.

    At least if their are still cameras using the format that is. And the jury's very much out on that question - and will be for some time to come.

    All that said, I'm fine with Panny sticking with the format. Just amp up the AF100 to an on board 4:2:2 50mpbs codec, a wee bit more resolution/sharpness, and some more of the DVX mojo (which does seem to be missing), and I'm in.
    Last edited by jdv; 01-18-2012 at 06:31 AM.
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    #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phil1076 View Post
    So, the Canon C300 is available for pre-order at BH and other authorized dealers for.........$16k body only.

    Now...Perhaps I'm smoking crack here, but isn't Panasonic in a position to dominate this market? We already have an AF100....granted, the decision to go m4/3 is questionable but if Panasonic were to combine elements of the AF100 and FS100 with the HPX250, wouldn't we have a competition-killer on our hands?

    This has been brought up before, I'm sure...but the specs of the F3 and the C300 leave quite a bit to be desired, especially at their price points. Let's say Panasonic was to:

    -cut the lens off the HPX250
    -replace the 1/3" sensors with a S35
    -keep everything else the same

    Couldn't they do this relatively easily, while maintaining a camera price below $8k? The removal of the lens would help to balance out the S35 sensor. Perhaps it's easier said than done, but an HPX250 with interchangeable lenses and an S35 sensor would, in essence, be the perfect camera.
    Yeah, except for the use of the too expensive P2-memory cards


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    #26
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    4/3 is nice, but APS-C is nicer! AF100 is a nice camera, but it has some issues.


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    #27
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    Asking Panasonic to make a non m4/3 sensor wont happen with the AF series but they might go with something like HPX style and a PL mount larger sensor in the future.


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    #28
    Senior Member Erik Naso's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MylesWilliams View Post
    I have used the AF100 a few times. LOVE it,..... having come from the JVC700 !

    Question is....do any of you think Panasonic will do some type of update to the AF100 and announce it at NAB in a few months?
    I doubt a updated AF-100 will be announced at NAB. The camera is only one years old. Panasonic was first to deliver a camera that has what we wanted. Basically a DSLR that works for video first. The other guys have caught up now but really the FS100 is the only competitor in the $5K price point and I wouldnít sell my AF-100 to buy it. If I was in the market for a new camera and didnít have the AF-100 iím not sure the FS100 would be my choice even though I would like the S35 sensor. The Canon is now retailing at $16K. Whatís the deal? Wasnít it supposed to be $12K? At $16K that puts the C300 at three times the price. Its in a totally different class and should only be compared to F3 and Scarlet.
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    #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by editman View Post
    What if Panasonic would make an AF250? Micro 4/3 chip with a fast 20x zoom lens built in
    Yes please


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    #30
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    I reckon they should be aiming for the lower end of the market rather than the high end, there are enough broadcast ready large sensor cams as it is. even at 4-5 grand without lenses the af100 is still to expensive for many people to purchase outright (myself included). surely they'd make more money by releasing a lower end af50 with a price of around 1500 to 2000 pounds/dollars/euros. something on a par with a hmc40 but with a m4/3rds sensor and interchangeable lenses, and some stripped out functions to lower the costs; all you really need in a camera to be able to shoot properly is zoom,focus and iris contol, iso/gain, shutter control, ND filters, a viewfinder and some basic level of audio input and adjustment. Everything else is just a nice bonus, and i'm guessing plenty of people would be able to live without some of the mod cons in newer cameras if it saved them a few thousand.This would be the ideal camera for all the extreme sports shooters, low budget doc's, film schools, B cam, and even weddings if your into that kind of thing.

    I really don't understand why none of the manufacturers have cottoned on yet, these new cinematic cams were supposed be "DSLR killers" which is pretty hard to achieve when they cost 5 to 10 times more than your average stills cam, which is why, if anything you're seeing more people jumping on the dslr bandwagon; For example, 2 small production houses i freelance for finally made the HD switch last year, high end cams like reds and kitted out f3's were out of the question financially, but rather than go straight to the mid range af100 or fs100 both went with the dslr option instead as the picture quality is very close (sometimes better) and you don't gain a huge amount by spending 3 or 4 grand more. so yeah basically what i'm trying to say is that if panasonic (or anyone) come out with a lower end large sensor camera targeted directly at the dslr market i think they will absolutely smash it, and easily outsell all the competition.


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