Has there ever been a hero that becomes the villain?

[nycineaste]

It's not fruitful or necessary to think in terms of heroes and villains. Just have a Protagonist and make sure he is given some measure of poetic justice in the end, which might mean having an ending which is mixture of win/lose. More complex, mature, and realistic (life isn't black and white). For example, the Protagonist of "Drive" wins, but loses something in the process of being such a violent antihero. Bad Leuitenant (the original) is 90 minutes of Harvey Keitel being the worst scumbag imaginable. It ends how it should (ditto Scarface).

all this silliness about "oh hes a good guy- oh now now hes bad" reeks of a silly trick on the audience. Concentrate on fundamentals not tricks. Aim to write something like The Verdict, not The Sixth Sense.

Poetic Justice and The Bittersweet Ending- two concrete writing techniques, much more useful than turning a good guy into bad guy.

[Rick Burnett]

My second example is Pitch Black but maybe not eveyone will agree. I saw it blind, never saw any of the publicity. So even though Riddick gets the voice over at the start I assumed that Fry was the protagonist and he was just a cool villain while. Riddick was her antagonist, a mentor pushing her boundaries, testing her and engendering change in her, forcing her to face the big questions. She goes from cowardice to bravery, steps up to the leadership role and has her morals tested and overcomes. Then she is killed and becomes part of his story, his antagonist, fundamentally changing him and his outlook on the universe. I had a powerful moment of realisation (maybe it should have been obvious) that he is or has become the antihero protagonist. This was a profound shock that has fascinated me ever since, even if it is a construct of my own interpretation. It's an idea I have been determined to explore in a project of my own ever since.

I've always loved that aspect of this movie. I too didn't see anything about it until I had actually watched it and found the way the characters played out to be fantastic.

[JoeRawlins]

Michael Caine's character in 'A shock to the system'.

Yes. Yes.

[agcohn]

Secret Window