View Poll Results: Which announcement were you most satisfied with?

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  • Canon's EOS C300

    22 14.29%
  • Red's Scarlet

    132 85.71%
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    #11
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    You do realize that the F3 only became available THIS year, right? ;)


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    #12
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    Both cameras are pricey but for what you get - RED wins!

    Congrats RED!

    Simon


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    #13
    Senior Member Hidef1080's Avatar
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    Both but I voted Red.

    I think this new Red [if the images are as good as I believe they will be based on samples from the 2/3's Scarlett] will be the camera to beat.
    Now to increase my skill set.....
    An UNPURE D800, Canon 7D | Dell M6500 - MSI GS70 | Windows 7 Pro 64bit - 8 Pro 64bit


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    #14
    Senior Member AtticusLake's Avatar
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    I've lost all respect for Canon -- not so much because of the product (although it's obviously at least a year late), but because of their insulting marketing. I mean please:
    The sensor has a resolution of 2,160 pixels tall by 3,840 pixels wide, which qualifies as native 4K... color is assembled the same way as a traditional three-chip sensor blocků two megapixels of red, two megapixels of blue and four megapixels of green.
    Canon... those are not PIXELS -- they are PHOTOSITES. This may come as a shock to you, Canon, but a pixel needs red, green AND blue.

    In other words, either Canon doesn't understand what a pixel is -- in which case they aren't fit to be in this business.

    Or they think we don't understand what a pixel is -- which is just plain insulting.

    Make no mistake, the C300 shoots at plain old HD resolution, same as my GoPro. By focusing on resolution, and trying to sucker us with their fake "4k" story, they are stupidly drawing attention away from the genuinely cool features of this camera -- 50 Mb/s, log gamma, 422.

    That said, at this price, and no ND filters, and just HD... fail.

    I had lost all respect for RED, because of their hideous attitude and their abysmal execution. Not to mention serious questions over product reliability. But last night's announcement told me that at least they get what people want, big time. Now, if they can deliver it, in volume, and with reliability, they win by miles.

    So, RED -- pending successful product shipment.



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    #15
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    I would have to say the Red announcement, and I say that as someone who had high hopes of Canon

    Still, when all's said and done both cams are so far beyond my budget as to be academic.

    Dave


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    #16
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    Neither ! First I'll never be interested in another camera costing more than 6k. What you buy for 20k today will cost 5k in 3 years. And I think the majority here agree. Cameras are disposable . The canon only shoots 720/60p ? And no autofocus of any kind ? It is a beaut. As I said before, reminds me of a Beaulieu 5000. And the Red ...well, Scarlet looks like a cheap computer with a lens mount . Sure, along way from those CAD drawings we saw 3 or 4 years ago. I would have loved to see a decked out 2/3 fixed lens for 6k. Now , it's still a 15k package minimum. And the whole 4k thing is overkill for 99% of shooters.

    Both are rental cameras for large projects. No run and guns here.

    Truly Panasonic has a great opportunity to win the race by a mile.....for me at least ! The convertible design we saw a few months ago for a future gh series combined with the new lenses , new evf, and better codec , for 2k ....would sell a million, while Canon and Red are only selling to rental houses. Or Sony can repackage the fs200 and kick some tail as well . They have a new 720p evf. Why wouldn't they use it on a future fs200, maybe with a prores recording module. And the rumored alpha a900 is coming as well.

    Both Canon and Scarlet shot themselves in the foot . When the world's economies are at virtual standstill or worse, collapse, and they come out with expensive cameras , esp. Canon ? I'm just puzzled.


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    #17
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    What I want is full HD done right at a price I can afford.

    RED wins.

    Quad HD at ~s35 sensor size, RAW readout, 440 megabit data rate would give me "perfect" deBayer 4:4:4 1080p at 25 fps with maximum flexibility to crop a little if I need to and grade from red RAW files, which is exactly my "dream spec". And 60/120 fps available even if in a limited way is cool.

    Quad HD downscaled in camera for perfect deBayer but then beaten to death with 8 bit 4:2:2 50 megabits, at a higher price, does not come close.

    Now we'll just have to see whether RED actually delivers on the stated timescale, with a robust (non-Beta) camera. I will try a Scarlet when the London rental houses get them, with a view to that being my upgrade path in due course I think.

    The Canon? Not even the beginnings of the faintest stirrings of interest at that price or that feature set.

    In fact my main take away from last night is renewed respect for the capabilities of the AF100 at its price point. I'm glad I bought one, mine is a pleasure to shoot with and I'm getting much better at lighting to work around its limitations, the main one of which is 8 bit for me which is why the Canon just doesn't interest me.

    Cheers, Hywel

    P.S. AF100 successor with AF100 front end and HPX250 back end, 10 bit AVCIntra, with "Panasonic Log" optiona at AF100 price point = win win win for me, if you are listening, Jan


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    #18
    Senior Member David W. Jones's Avatar
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    I think the most profound announcement was that AVID laid off another 200 people.
    Sometimes I'm really amazed how clueless people are about the economy and it's impact on the audio/video/film industry.

    With that being said... Hey, go out and spend $20K on a new camera.


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    #19
    Senior Member jambredz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AtticusLake View Post
    That said, at this price, and no ND filters, and just HD... fail.
    it does have built in ND


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    #20
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    Short term, RED. But it seems like they clamored to slap it together. Also the previous slew of expectations hurt them. Long term, Canon. More so because of the lenses and the dedicated division. I have never heard canon bad mouth the competition, it doesn't work their way into the campaigns. Ok it's pricey, but still, it runs out of the box. I like that it's a log space. I wonder if it's 8 or 10 bit. The big disappointment for me with the RED announcement is that for some reason it seems a bit lame that the person who so vehemently abhorred low rez would window down all the way to 1K. Scarlet is a 2k 60p RAW cam. Windowed. I dunno. I'd still take a REDMX over it. It's still a damn good machine, better than most out there and I can jack it up to 120fps at 2K. I dunno. In the thick of it last night I was jumping all over the place. But today, just looking and thinking of what it is I shoot, how I like to shoot, and what both made me wait for, RED didn't impress me much. I would have still preferred the 2/3rd fixed lens scarlet, with frame rates across the board without having to crop. I like 2/3rds. And yes, for filmmaking. I don't care about spatial res. I really don't. Even if I say I do, once I'm on the spot looking at a storyboard at work getting things ready there's so much more I care about. I think the canon would be much faster to work with too.

    I like 16mm. It's elegant. I won't spend 15-20k (strongly believe that's still how much I'll need if I'm a first time buyer) to get the thing running if I gotta window down. RAW is RAW, but if this thing really is in log space (the canon) I dunno.

    I voted canon. Big move, very long term, admittedly a business and they're not ashamed of that, no facades, no testosterone. RED are fun to watch in the ring. But when it comes to work I don't know how much more good it will do than using several other options there. Now they have a division for cine. The first product is more a symbol really. It's what's coming that's gonna rip things apart.

    I foresee the Vitaliy scenario. Canon vs. Sony, RED ain't around, and Arri is a boutique niche company. In 5 years. his words.

    I always say this, if the a-cam dii wen tup to 60 or 80 fps, I'd still take it over anything out there. So simple. So subtle. Really gets out of the way.

    My 2 piasters.


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