I am a newbie so I wanted to ask a question.
What happens if you try the Anamorphic Patch V2 with your Panasonic GH1 and you don't have an Anamorphic lens? I was thinking that the pacth just automatically created that cinematic look.
Any info would be appreciated.......Thanks
Thread: 100 Mbps Anamorphic Patch V2
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06-14-2011 03:04 PM
- Join Date
- Jun 2011
06-14-2011 08:03 PM
- Join Date
- Mar 2010
In HD MJPEG mode, the GH1 always uses a video frame that is scaled in an HDTV 16:9 aspect ratio. Likewise, the VGA MJPEG mode always records in an SDTV 4:3 aspect ratio. The Anamorphic versions of the patches listed in my signature alter the video frame size to pack more pixels horizontally into the 16:9 HD or 4:3 VGA frame. With a standard lens, this makes the video look distorted, with everything squeezed thinner than it should be. If you use an anamorphic lens with the appropriate 1.33X, 1.5X, or 2X squeeze factor, however, the anamorphic ratios will match and you'll get a 2.37:1 widescreen aspect ratio without distortion.
06-20-2011 08:52 PM
- Join Date
- Apr 2011
First of all, *thank you* for such numerous and substantial contributions, time and again. I think I'm speaking for most of us here when I write that it's very dearly appreciated.
Second of all, I'm feeling somewhat dense here, trying to make sense of the anamorphic patch.
I've been under the impression that to get full resolution, one must begin witha 16:9 aspect ratio in camera. Also, to achieve the 2.35:1 CinemaScope or 2.39:1 Academy ratios, once has but three choices:
1) Use a native anamorphic prime
2) Use a 1.33x anamorphic attachment to get as close to the desired aspect ratio as possible, or 2.36:1
3) Use a 1.5x anamorphic attachment to get a super-wide 2.66:1 ratio.
For the life of me, I just can't compute how squeezing 16:9 via ptool, then unsqueezing leaves one with anything other than the original starting place.
Am I wrong? Please tell me I am wrong - I would *love* to be wrong here, because I have the GH13 and two wonderful 2x anamorphics. But I just can't wrap my right-brained self around the logic of how this patch changes any of this.
I have the GH13 running the max latitude 100mbps in very high reliability. Getting there has actually forced me to concentrate much more on nailing down my exposures. So the patch development is not only a technical boon for my rig, but also for my skills and knowledge.
I also have a very beautiful, super clean Möller Anamorphot 32/2x anamorphic lens attachment. I've had this and another (Baush and Lomb, plus a Cinephor) anamorphic attachment for a few months, but I just bought an anamorphic clamp a few days ago.
Here's what I'd like to do, so please tell me if this is what your patch does and, if so, how I can get around being dense and set the ptool settings accordingly.
I want a native, full resolution 2:1 aspect ratio (1080/24p), so that I can get more anamorphic style bokeh and flares (without losing stops as one does with the cheapo "anamorphic" football iris/shaded filter) but also treat the frame like a digi negative, which I could then frame and move around in post.
Ultimately, I'd like a 2.35:1 or 2.39:1 result, but from the GH13 I'm looking for a 2:1 ratio.
I'd like to set the GH13 to a 1:1 aspect ratio - without cropping, full res, normal looking image (no squeeze evident visually). Then, when combined with the 2x anamorphot, I'd get a 2:1 picture.
My confusion is the logic of the whole process. If I start with a full-res 16:9 ratio, then squeeze that to 1:1 in firmware, then double the width with the 2x anamorphot, then unsqueeze in post, won't the result still be a 32:9 image?
Is there a way to shoot normal looking, full res HD 1080/24p on the GH13 with 4:3 aspect ratio? Does this just crop horizontally? Does the 16:9 aspect ratio on the GH1 crop the sensor vertically?
Sorry if my questions are unclear or confusing. I'm feeling confused, so that wouldn't come as a surprise.
Many, many thanks,
Last edited by Cine; 06-20-2011 at 09:43 PM. Reason: clarity
06-20-2011 10:32 PM
- Join Date
- Mar 2010
As you anticipated, the 1080p video frame will have the normal 16:9 FHD aspect ratio when using standard lenses. If you then attach a 2X anamorphic adapter, you will have twice the horizontal Field of View, which will be squeezed into the 16:9 frame, making everything look thin and distorted.
In post-production, you will need to set up your video editor to automatically stretch your footage horizontally by 2X, producing a 3840x1080 pixel frame size. This will unsqueeze the anamorphic effect and correct the distorted aspect ratio of the original footage.
When rendering your edited video, you will need to crop the 3840x1080 pixel frame to the desired 2.35:1 or 2.39:1 aspect ratio. I'd actually recommend cropping to the digital cinemascope standard of 2560x1080, which is a 2.37:1 aspect ratio. The choice is yours, however, and your target distribution format is probably the best standard to follow.
06-21-2011 02:10 PM
- Join Date
- Apr 2011
lpowell is correct on all accounts, as usual
I do wish I could have my (non-lossy, anamorphic) cake and eat it too!
*Rubs the magic ptool lamp for the lpowell or similar genie to grant my wish*
But some things *are* impossible, even with such Genies as lpowell, Vitaly, et al around who make me forget those impossibilities!
To the best of my knowledge and experience:
To get a true, *non-lossy 2.37:1 native ratio from 1920x1080 (16:9 FHD) via anamorphic squeeze, the following rig setup should (*in theory*) work, but is not advisable for anything serious, unless you have great glass every step of the way and don't mind the difficulty (and, in the case of most attachments in terms of tack-sharp focus, near-impossibility) of focusing both the standard lens and the 2 anamorphic attachments . .
A) [GH13: in 1080/24p AVCHD 16:9, 100mbps max latitude patch] connects to ->
B) [**Standard lens] connects to ->
C) [1.5x anamorphic (e.g., Iscoramas, LA7200, etc) set at a 90º angle (horizontal ellipsis) from the normal, vertical ellipsis position, to stretch the vertical field of view, set with a horizontal ellipsis, increasing the vertical angle of view by 1.5x] connects to ->
D) [***2x anamorphic, set normally, i.e., with a vertical ellipsis, thereby widening the horizontal field of view by 2x] ->
E) [export at 1920 x 810] ->
Or, in numbered terms,
1920 x 2 = 3840
1080 x 1.5 = 1620
3840/1620 = 2.370370...
F) *Precise, non-lossy (i.e., no crop needed) 1920 x 810 (2.37:1)
*Precise if and only if you are precisely setting the elliptical angles AND you have anamorphic glass that is capable of sharp focus, as many cannot and do not
**I'm still not sure which standard lens focal lengths are optimum. Longer lenses seem to produce less vignetting as the lens' focal lengths get longer.
***When mounting the 2x in front of the 1.5x, you might need to add a diopter between the 1.5x and the 2x. A 2x diopter should get you into the safe zone.
This is a dubiously tricky rig, which again, I advise only for experiments unless you have a 2x anamorphic that's clean and bright enough, and which is "focus friendly," i.e., unlike the vast majority of 2x anamorphics out there.
I wish there were some way to cut the 1.5x out of the rig altogether. Why not cut out the 2x, you might ask? More elliptical bokeh and flares, and, of course, extra res!
Hope this helps anyone out there who's also trying to get their 1.5x and/or 2x attachments to deliver a non-lossy 2.37:1 result without losing 1/3 of the extra res via horizontal crop (2.37/3.56= ~0.66).
Using a 2x attachment in 16:9 1920x1080 FHD mode only makes sense if you either A) like the ultra-wide (well, DOUBLE wide) 3.56:1 ratio or, if a 1/3 reduction in horizontal resolution (well, after "doubling" res with the 2x attachment) 2/3 horizontal crop is tolerable for your project's needs, and you must have that lovely, delicious elliptical bokeh and flares AND don't want to opt for the cheapo "shaded football iris" filter options.
My advice to those of you who have a GH13 and want to leverage the 100mbps Max Latitude patch to the extreme AND shoot with anamorphics: Invest in good 1.5x Iscoramas or a Panasonic AG-LA7200, and stay away from most 2x glass out there. Shooting in 1920x1080 with a 1.5x anamorphic set with a normal, vertical ellipsis leads to a more reasonable, less lossy (if you were to crop, which, as part of your audience, I'd hope you'd elect to do!) ~2.66:1 aspect ratio (Export 1920x720 without cropping to get a normal field of view). Yes, 2x anamorphic attachments are usually less expensive, but they are either bulky and heavy, or are so small (like a 37mm or smaller rear element diameter) that one must optically magnify (via macro or zoom), or crop ad absurdum. Either way, any anamorphics under $1000 are, by and large, *not* focus friendly, while they *are* usually dirty, moldy and hazy.
Many, many thanks to lpowell for helping me and us all with his patches, precise knowledge and generosity in posting such detailed replies! You are awesome!
Last edited by Cine; 06-22-2011 at 03:49 PM.