Clean Dialog Track from Actors Noises (object handling etc) ?

[gzabetas]

I am using the Sennheiser MKH 416 boom mic. Is the boom technique wrong? in that i am picking up the actors movements and object handling overlapping with dialog.
How does one get that noise free dialog track in scenes where the actors are walking and handling objects? Maybe re-recording wild on the same spot without the movements, or a LAV instead of the boom. Just looking for anyone's experience with this.
thanks

[Gohanto]

It depends what they're wearing and or handling. Someone wearing a polyester jogging suit and handling some christmas bells, you'll certainly hear them .

[David Jimerson]

If you absolutely can't get clean dialogue due to clothing noises or necessary handling of objects, then re-recording at the same location is an option. Lavs are usually not a particularly good alternative and wouldn't solve the problem entirely anyway -- not to mention introducing a whole set of new ones.

But you can do things like pad objects to eliminate their sounds and add the sound in later.

[gzabetas]

thanks for the tips.
its odd, watching Law & Order episodes there seems to be mayhem going on in the backgrounds, D'Onofrio leafing thru pages while talking over it, a guy kicking a punchbag next to him. (are they miming this stuff?)
and you can tell the mix is superb (meaning only dialog was captured).

meanwhile i have a $1,000 shotgun over an actors mouth while its also picking up a truck outside.....

[Noiz2]

There are a number of "answers" depending on what your doing. One thing that really hurts low budget filmmakers is the idea that they want to capture all the sound when shooting. In a big budget narrative film everything that can be is made silent. The bottoms of cups are padded, shoes are padded etc. You want to ONLY be recording dialog. The catch is that if you do that really well you need to do a real sound post to add all that stuff back in.

Now some of that stuff always ends up in the takes no mater how careful you are. Getting rid of that is the dialog editors job. You cut out all the little sounds that got in and stick them on a junk track, just incase you want them back for some reason, and paste in Room Tone where the sound was. Traditionally if you had a sound on a line you would look for alternate takes to pull a snippet of the same word with out the sound and see if you could futz it in. Now days with tools like Rx they may be salvaging the original. That part is definitely happening on the small post scale but I'm not sure if they are letting dialig editors on big films do destructive editing. It used to be a no no but since tracks are free I suspect they are having them clone the bit and clean the clone as an alternative (Alt.) take.

From what you describe I doubt there is much you can do with mic technique. It's more of a costume and art department job. I would talk to the director and suggest they pad down some of the problem props and maybe even make some costume changes. The last depends entirely on the scale of production, if actors are bringing their own clothes then it's definitely on the table. If there is a costume designer then probably not and if it's a bigger production I would stay clear. You could mention that your getting a lot of rustle off the costumes but tread softly.

And if you are the boom op and you are working for a mixer talk to him/her about it DO NOT bypass them or your but is in a sling. People get very protective of the picking order, for very good reasons, so whoever is the head sound person is the one that needs to bring sound issues up the chain.

You didn't say what level of production this was so...

[gzabetas]

good info also.
its a low to no budget short indy for the festival circuit.

[Gary Huff]

There's a scene in the Marx Brothers film, The Cocoanuts, in which Groucho and Chico have a humorous dialogue over a set of blueprints. The blueprints themselves were dipped fully in water to remove the sound of paper crinkling during the scene.

[gzabetas]

haha even back then.....
i wonder if this is what noiz2 was referring to when he mentioned Rx. looks promising...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=07n-qZyH8WM

[davefisk]

I have to second what Noiz2 said. If you can't re-shoot to get clean dialogue, then get a good dialogue editor, and give them the select takes and all the alt takes. A really good dialogue editor can do amazing things by just editing. I know a great dialogue editor who has done a bunch of Jet Li movies, and whenever she's done with her work, people think Jet Li has better english, when in fact she's cut in consonants and other things to make his dialogue more understandable.

But to re-iterate what Noiz said, put padding on the bottom of shoes, cups, anything that makes noise that is made of a hard substance. Turn off air conditioners, refrigerators, or anything with a motor. The padding we are referring to is often times called "foot foam", and you should be able to get it at any production sound dealer. I used to literally sell it by the yards back in the day. It's a thin, high dense foam that is sticky on one side that goes on the bottom of shoes, cups, mugs, or whatever you want.

[Noiz2]

haha even back then.....
i wonder if this is what noiz2 was referring to when he mentioned Rx. looks promising...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=07n-qZyH8WM

That must be an old post. Rx is much more than promising. And that is an old video Rx2 is out now and is a bit better at removing and replacing. I have used it a lot in Doc work to get rid of odd sounds. The new version is much more flexible in selecting what you want to get rid of.