Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 27
  1. Collapse Details
    Hiding a Lav Mic.. Good info I found..
    #1
    Senior Member galbach's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Virginia Beach
    Posts
    284
    Default
    It is indeed Moleskin. It is the industry standard for hiding mics under clothing. I've been a sound guy for 20 years and it is what we use most to afix lavs to shirts, blouses and skin.

    I just did a job where the hostess had to be lav'd because we were using very wide shots from a jib. I first did what we've been doing for years, clipping the mic to her bra down in the valley. Well, there is no rubbing there but the lav has to "hear" through lots of clothing and her second blouse was silk. So even though the lav was not rubbing againt anything, it still had to hear her voice through all that noise of the material making the noise that silk makes.

    So after trying to make that sound right for an hour, during a break, I removed the lav from the bra, and put it on some moleskin a stuck it onto the blouse (a rule of thumb is to stick the mic to the thing that makes the noise) up high just inside the shirt. Bingo! Noise was gone! I was sitting there thinking why I always do this instead of just doing it the first time.

    Moleskin is what we also use on the show Extreme Makeover: Home Edition, which I do freelance work for. Everyone who wears a mic on the show is using the moleskin method. There's a bunch of different ways of doing it. One is to make sure the talent is wearing a tee shirt and stick a strip of molesking 1 inch by 3/4 inch to the tee shirt, where it doesn't hit the top button. Some put it on the side, others down the middle. The lav lays on this and then I put a smaller strip on top of the lav to keep the outer shirt from touching it.

    Another way is to stick this moleskin and lav "sandwich" to the outer shirt facing in. With lavs, it doesn't matter. They are usually omnidirectional. For NFL Films wirings of coaches, we use moleskin with a slight change. The second layer of moleskin covers the whole mic and has a tiny hole cut in it for the element to hear through. Sometimes we sandwich the lav between the shirt and the moleskin, hearing out through the shirt. It takes some experimenting to get it right and no one method works all the time.

    The show West Wing is a show that uses two sound recordists and all lavs. Some are hidden in pockets, some in ties, some in shirts, some in bras. You have to get creative sometimes.

    You ask how to get the mic to be quiet under clothing. That's the hard part. On movies, the sound department works closely with the wardrobe department, and has the time to do so. Mics are sometimes sewn into clothing. We always request all cotton when we can. Ask your on camera people to bring v neck 100% cotton tees (girls too). Cotton shirts, cotton ties...cotton...cotton...cotton!!! NO silk or silk like shirts or blouses.

    Sometimes, you can hide the mic in the knot of the tie in the folds. Sometimes I've taped the mic to the topside of the sizing inside the tie, so it just has the one layer to hear through. What works really well is thin clear double stick wig tape. You fold a section of wigtape over the mic, and press it on the top side of the sizing of the neck tie. The double stick keeps all layers from moving independently and reduces rustle. This same methond works well in dress shirts in the double stitched section where the buttons are. Cut a small hole in the backside of that double section and fish the mic covered by double stick inbetween buttons and press again so the whole area moves as one.

    We also sometimes cut a small hole just above the inside lower edge of a dress shirt pocket. You fish the lav up through that tiny hole (which can always be repaired later) with double stick clear (thin) wig tape, press the layers of the pocket to each other, again so the layers don't move independently but as one section.

    Women, of course, have the valley area of the bra to hide the lav in, IF the outside material is not silk or similar. This is easy and where we usually start. Bra straps are another place to try. If you are trying to hide the mic on a women who is wearing a bathing suit or a blouse and no bra, then taping to the skin is necessary. Be sure to ask her if she has sensitive skin, as some can get a rash from tape or even the sticky stuff from moleskin. We still tape the lav in the valley area and then route the cable underneath one of the breasts around to the backside. If the actress has to turn around, then a wireless is out and it's boom time, no matter how far away the boom mic has to be. That's when ADR comes into play.

    I can't give away all of my secrets from 20 years or experience, but that's the most popular and the easiest. As things don't work, you have to keep inventing things until something works. But there may come a point where you just can't get the lav quiet. That happens sometimes and there's just not anything you can do about it. That's when you drop back and punt :-)

    I hope this helps. If you have any other questions, feel free to ask.

    Peace,

    the sounddude
    "We mock what we do not understand" Austin Millbarge -


    Reply With Quote
     

  2. Collapse Details
    #2
    Senior Member John Willett's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Oxfordshire, UK
    Posts
    1,426
    Talking
    Thanks Galbach, very useful.

    Another useful place to look is the Microphone Data Library - lots of good stuff there.
    John Willett
    Sound-Link ProAudio Ltd.
    Circle Sound Services
    President - International Federation of Soundhunters (FICS)

    Recorder: Nagra VI, Nagra SD, AETA 4MinX
    Mics: (all pairs): Sennheiser MKH 20/30/40/800/8020/8040/816F, Neumann KM-D series. Plus: Soundfield SPS200, Neumann TLM 103, KMR 81i + loads more
    DAW: Sequoia
    Monitors: ME-Geithain RL944K, ME-Geithain RL906, Harbeth M30A, K+H O110D
    Headphones: Sennheiser HD 25-1, HD 800
    Monitor Controller: Grace m903


    Reply With Quote
     

  3. Collapse Details
    #3
    Senior Member Chadfish's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    Arcata, CA (Humboldt County!)
    Posts
    2,772
    Default
    Hey galbach!

    Any chance you could post some photos of the methods you mention? A picture says a thousand words.

    Thanks

    Chad
    Work Examples - Vimeo - My Music
    Sony FS5 :: Panasonic GH4 :: Sony EX1 :: FCPX :: Senn G3 / RodeLink Wireless
    Rode NT1, NTG-2, NTG-3 Shotgun, NT3(Pair), NT4 (Stereo), NT2000, AT4053b Hyper


    Reply With Quote
     

  4. Collapse Details
    #4
    Senior Member galbach's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Virginia Beach
    Posts
    284
    Default
    Quote Originally Posted by Chadfish View Post
    Hey galbach!

    Any chance you could post some photos of the methods you mention? A picture says a thousand words.

    Thanks

    Chad
    I wish I could... These are not my methods...But an article I found on the net... Maybe we could get Matt to do a video for us.. of different Lav techniques
    "We mock what we do not understand" Austin Millbarge -


    Reply With Quote
     

  5. Collapse Details
    #5
    Senior Member Chadfish's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    Arcata, CA (Humboldt County!)
    Posts
    2,772
    Default
    I just did 3 interviews with my Sanken COS11d. I was getting lots of rustle from the wire itself. I made a loop close to the mic, and taped the wire to the inside of 2 people's sweaters. I heard lots of clothes noise. On the 3rd person, a woman, I vampire clipped the mic to he bra in the valley of nice sound, and just let the cable hang, as it was only stationary sitting, and it worked the best. Perhaps the wool, or wool-like sweater material is noisy? The 3rd woman had very thin stretchy material, probably not cotton, but still silent.

    Wireless was only a backup to my AT4053b on a boom, which sounded fine. However I inadvertently engaged some sort of noise gate like function that muted the unit during quiet times. Very unnatural sounding. It happened in the last interview and couldn't track down what it was on my G3 wireless. The voice sounded fine but when she stopped I got abrupt dead silence unless she breathed hard or moved, which caused the unit to sputter the signal off/on. Anyone got a clue what that is? I couldn't find it in the menu. Batteries were fresh.
    Work Examples - Vimeo - My Music
    Sony FS5 :: Panasonic GH4 :: Sony EX1 :: FCPX :: Senn G3 / RodeLink Wireless
    Rode NT1, NTG-2, NTG-3 Shotgun, NT3(Pair), NT4 (Stereo), NT2000, AT4053b Hyper


    Reply With Quote
     

  6. Collapse Details
    #6
    Resident Preditor mcgeedigital's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    Potomac Falls, VA
    Posts
    7,697
    Default
    Good stuff.
    Matt Gottshalk - Director/ Dp/ and Emmy Award Winning Editor
    Producer, Digital Creative for the United States Postal Service


    Reply With Quote
     

  7. Collapse Details
    #7
    Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    London
    Posts
    44
    Default
    Hello Everybody.

    I've been a location sound recordist for the past two years and in the beginning I tried to use all sorts of tricks in order to hide a lav and get good rustle free sound. I've also used Mole skin but I wanted to make sure we are talking about the same material. Is it a product from companies like Dr Scholls named "moleskin plus padding" ??

    If yes I did use it and I have to admit that I got descent results most of the times. I used to roll the mic with it resulting in a quite bulky and large lav that was difficult to hide. I guess this was not the right way to do things and when clothes were noisy the setup was not effective.

    Additionally I have tried the technique of stabilizing the mic in between two pieces of the clothing of the talent so that the whole thing moves together and does not rub against the mic. I was using Gaffa tape (of course not on the mic or touching the mic ) for this and unfortunately I was always getting noise while the tape was getting unstuck slowly slowly. Worst part of the story was that this was unpredicted so couldn't really give guidelines to the talent about when to deliver lines according to sudden movements etc etc...

    Since then I use Rycote's undercovers and overcovers. They work really well in general and they do provide protection from wind especially the overcovers but still don't work well when clothing is synthetic and noisy.

    As other users have mentioned a picture of the setup would be really helpful for understanding the black magic that hiding a lav actually is.


    1 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    Reply With Quote
     

  8. Collapse Details
    #8
    Member nyquist-x's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    Argentine, Buenos Aires
    Posts
    64
    Default
    Hi! I just want to point that this kind of topics are among the most useful around... for people like I (novice), this way of learning is a +A... of course, a couple of pictures would help even more.

    Best Regards.
    Fernando
    Someday, it will be over


    Reply With Quote
     

  9. Collapse Details
    #9
    Default
    I use Rycote undercovers - they're the same concept as moleskin but pre-cut to fit around a lav mic and stick to clothing. Come in packs of about 30 or so...

    There's also a tricked out ballpoint in the audio bag - looks like the top half of a pen that clips to a jacket or shirt pocket - push a lav mic into it - the mic looks like the push-button end of the pen.

    Cheers,
    George


    Reply With Quote
     

  10. Collapse Details
    #10
    Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    London
    Posts
    44
    Default
    Moleskin is what we also use on the show Extreme Makeover: Home Edition, which I do freelance work for. Everyone who wears a mic on the show is using the moleskin method. There's a bunch of different ways of doing it. One is to make sure the talent is wearing a tee shirt and stick a strip of molesking 1 inch by 3/4 inch to the tee shirt, where it doesn't hit the top button. Some put it on the side, others down the middle. The lav lays on this and then I put a smaller strip on top of the lav to keep the outer shirt from touching it.
    The other day I had a shoot and tried my luck with moleskin again. The talent was wearing a shirt that was 65% polyester 35% Cotton, so indeed quite noisy. Just to add to the difficulty of the situation he was also wearing a tight priest collar. This left me only the choice of placing the mic in between the two parts of the shirt (left and right) at the point that they overlap in order for the shirt to get buttoned.

    Just for testing reasons I only used an undercover Rycote stickie and attached it on one layer and left the other layer free. Of course the mic was noisy and was hearing loads of clothes rustling. Then I attached a strip of moleskin on one part of the shirt and stuck the mic with the undercover on it. Afterwards I attached another strip of moleskin to the other (opposite) layer of the shirt for it not to rub directly against the mic. Of course the two parts of the shirt were moving freely so there was still noise even though less, since moleskin is not that noisy, especially comparing to polyester. Next step in order to complete the test was an attempt to fix the two layers of the shirt so that they move as one thing and there is no rubbing against the mic.

    To sum up So far I had attached a stip of moleskin on both overlapping layers of fabric (one facing the other) and fixed the mic on one of them, using a Rycote Stickie and an Undercover. In order to finally fix the mic on both strips of moleskin I attached a Rycote double sided Stickie on the "mic free" strip of moleskin and then stuck that part on to the mic and in consequence on to the other moleskin. This kept the two parts of the shirt together and the result was so much better. I did though still hear tinny bit of rustling noise on certain hand movements and also some times heard noise from the two adhesive parts getting unstuck. I was definitely able to work with this setup but i was wondering if there is any other way of fixing the mic on the two strips of moleskin that I havent figured out yet.

    What method do other people use??

    Anybody with more experience on this or with different approach??

    Hope the post is not really long and confusing.


    Reply With Quote
     

Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •