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    #71
    Senior Member dougspice's Avatar
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    There are some good observations and advice in here... I really think it's impossible to ever have a completely fair and impartial voting system, and I think any system that is too aggressive in trying to achieve that (by requiring you to vote on all films, etc) is doomed to failure.

    But, I do think the comment on streaming is spot-on. We live in the age of ubiquitous streaming video. One of the goals of this fest is to promote these films and get new people to get in, see them, comment on them, participate – making them come to a site they've never heard of and download files doesn't help achieve that. I ran into some confusion from my cast, crew, and friends trying to explain to them the dvxfest.com setup. The tools are already out there and ready, so we should be using them!

    As for budget – at this kind of budget level, those numbers are essentially meaningless. There are so many things you just can't put a price tag on. What are the favors I called in worth compared to the favors you called in? I've seen contests that have tried to have strict budget limits in the spirit of competition, but there's always someone who shows up with a "donated" RED or 35mm camera... the world ain't fair, and it's a waste of time to pretend that it is. The only thing that matters is did I make the best movie I could with the resources I had.

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    #72
    Senior Member MSpencer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dougspice View Post
    The only thing that matters is did I make the best movie I could with the resources I had.
    well put..


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    #73
    Senior Member Chris_Marrs_Piliero's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dougspice View Post
    There are some good observations and advice in here... I really think it's impossible to ever have a completely fair and impartial voting system, and I think any system that is too aggressive in trying to achieve that (by requiring you to vote on all films, etc) is doomed to failure.

    But, I do think the comment on streaming is spot-on. We live in the age of ubiquitous streaming video. One of the goals of this fest is to promote these films and get new people to get in, see them, comment on them, participate – making them come to a site they've never heard of and download files doesn't help achieve that. I ran into some confusion from my cast, crew, and friends trying to explain to them the dvxfest.com setup. The tools are already out there and ready, so we should be using them!

    As for budget – at this kind of budget level, those numbers are essentially meaningless. There are so many things you just can't put a price tag on. What are the favors I called in worth compared to the favors you called in? I've seen contests that have tried to have strict budget limits in the spirit of competition, but there's always someone who shows up with a "donated" RED or 35mm camera... the world ain't fair, and it's a waste of time to pretend that it is. The only thing that matters is did I make the best movie I could with the resources I had.

    glad you dig the idea of streaming, and everything you said is exactly why i suggested it... i think it would be really beneficial to the fests...

    but I dunno, man... i wouldn't consider requiring everyone to vote on all the films "aggresive" or "doomed to failure"... impartial votes are totally gonna happen, that's inevitable, yes... and jason has already said that voting is pretty good across the board, but if there's a judging panel it just makes sense to me that the judges should be required to weigh in on every submission... i dunno... just my .03...

    in regards to budget, i think nemesis ts was just curious about people's budgets, not so much suggesting that there should be some criteria added to the submission rules... but chime in, nem, if i'm wrong on that one...


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    #74
    Senior Member namelok's Avatar
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    About the streaming, I think that would be a big problem for ones who wish to enter their short on live festivals. Usually one of the rules for live festivals is that your film is not on any of the video sharing websites. At least in my country.


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    #75
    Senior Member Chris_Marrs_Piliero's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by namelok View Post
    About the streaming, I think that would be a big problem for ones who wish to enter their short on live festivals. Usually one of the rules for live festivals is that your film is not on any of the video sharing websites. At least in my country.
    ah interesting point about entering it into other festivals and their rules... hmmmm... could you just make it private once you decide to enter it into another festival?


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    #76
    Senior Member namelok's Avatar
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    I don't know, probably


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    #77
    Senior Member dougspice's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris_Marrs_Piliero View Post
    but I dunno, man... i wouldn't consider requiring everyone to vote on all the films "aggresive" or "doomed to failure"... impartial votes are totally gonna happen, that's inevitable, yes... and jason has already said that voting is pretty good across the board, but if there's a judging panel it just makes sense to me that the judges should be required to weigh in on every submission... i dunno... just my .03...
    For dedicated judges, yeah, okay that's true, anyone who is a "judge" should be required to consider all films equally. But from my own perspective, asking someone to watch 50+ films for their vote to count at all is a stretch. I sure haven't! I've watched about 3/4 of them, but there just wasn't time for the others. Obviously if I somehow missed any finalists I'll watch those... but you're talking about hours and hours and hours of time overall. If it ain't broke, don't fix it!

    Commercial and Creative Director at Psychic Bunny, a hybrid media studio in sunny Los Angeles, California.

    Producer, Cement Suitcase ( feature film )
    Writer/Director/Producer, Dead Drop ( BetrayalFest finalist ) "A very cool, slick and well done short."
    Producer, The Echo Game ( feature film ) - "There is never a dull moment..."
    Ex. Producer, Coma, Period. ( web series ) - "...few things in web video are done as well as they are in Coma, Period."

    @TheSpiceEffect on Twitter IMDb



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    #78
    Senior Member Chris_Marrs_Piliero's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dougspice View Post
    For dedicated judges, yeah, okay that's true, anyone who is a "judge" should be required to consider all films equally. But from my own perspective, asking someone to watch 50+ films for their vote to count at all is a stretch. I sure haven't! I've watched about 3/4 of them, but there just wasn't time for the others. Obviously if I somehow missed any finalists I'll watch those... but you're talking about hours and hours and hours of time overall. If it ain't broke, don't fix it!

    yeah, well i guess the question is.... is it broken? that was the point of me starting this thread in the first place... i'm just not sold on the idea that the judging panel doesn't have to vote on every film... just doesn't seem fair... it's extremely tough to watch 50+ films, but if you're gonna commit to voting I think you should be required to vote on them all...


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    #79
    Mr. Hollywood Blaine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris_Marrs_Piliero View Post
    it's extremely tough to watch 50+ films, but if you're gonna commit to voting I think you should be required to vote on them all...
    In which case, we should be given a month to work our way through them. I don't think that's going to fly...


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    #80
    Admin Jason Ramsey's Avatar
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    there is a core group of folks that watch and rate them all (or almost all), a lot that rate at least half, and then some that rate only a few, or just the finalists... but, it all balances out pretty dang well in the end in terms of the number of votes each film gets. surprisingly well, actually.

    Seems like the more films, the greater the spread in number of votes each film would get, but I don't see that happening. More films = more participation all around. A larger core group of watch and rate every thing. a larger group of folks who get through a lot of them, and more people rating only the finalists, etc.. and more viewers.

    The popular vote we did this time was just silly, and I see no need really to do that any more, other than for strictly informational purposes... but, when you have a film not even in the top 10 in the member vote that is in 1st in the popular vote and has more than twice as many votes as any other film.... not much useful in the popular vote in my opinion.

    Moving forward, I think what essentially amounts to a 3 panel system gives good variety in the results. The current DVXuser Member Panel vote (50+ posts), the mod squad awards, and hopefully there will be an ongoing outside panel made up of industry professionals.

    no system will be perfect, but the current member vote and rating system seems pretty solid all in all, and I'll take lower overall voter numbers made up of core dvxuser members with more consistent and reliable results over an all out popularity contest with big voting number spreads and wild results any day of the week.

    the system is always fluid though. But, right now... the priority needs to be on the functionality of the system.... getting a cleaned up back end, a navigable front end, ability to stream the films, etc. That's where the fests are "broken" the most.

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