equipment

[Heartzz]

Hey i need some advice/opinions upon a camera + gear and etc.

This is probably the most asked question but i fear i must ask it again.

What is the best camera + equipment to be able to film something beautiful/pro?


Budget: prox. 5900$

It needs to shoot 24p and be HD of course, basically the best image possible.

I want it to have good DOP and interchangebale lenses, if not please suggest an adaptor that works and include the price.

Also a good cheap steady setup or rig + price if possible. (I know that most rigs a costum built, but still come with a suggestion)

I have heard alot of good response about the canon eos 5d mark 2 and 7d, because they are cheap. But is it possible and easier price extra equipment and all in consideration? Whats your opinion?


Note.
Im from Denmark Scandinavia so prices USA and europe my differ a lot.
I have been renting a canon xl h1 with a ps technik adaptor earlier and i loved it but to buy was not cheap.

[Huy Vu]

This is probably the most asked question but i fear i must ask it again.

What is the best camera + equipment to be able to film something beautiful/pro?

This is not what you want to hear but you really need to do more research. A broad question like yours is basically unanswerable because there is no "best" equipment, period. You can find beautiful footage shot by $500 cameras and you can find crappy stuff done by "pro" cameras. No one here will be able to give you a model number and promises you that the result will look great, if they do they'll be lying because ultimately it's the operator, not the tool. Ask yourself what your specific needs are beyond broad terms like "good" and "professional", then do some research and you'll soon be able to narrow down your choices. Then if there's unanswered questions you can always ask and you'll get a lot more productive responses.

[Heartzz]

Well i still need some advice.

Should i consider the canon eos 5d mark 2 or 7d for indie filming?

Is there any new and better version of the xl h1? it is really hard to find and it's still very expensive even without a DOF adaptor.

and what if a want DOF like the p+s mini35, is there any alternatives?

[Huy Vu]

Should i consider the canon eos 5d mark 2 or 7d for indie filming?

Is there any new and better version of the xl h1? it is really hard to find and it's still very expensive even without a DOF adaptor.

and what if a want DOF like the p+s mini35, is there any alternatives?

Do a search or swing by the 5D and 7D subforum, plenty of discussion there, most of them concerning your question.

There are two newer variants to the H1 which are the H1a and the H1s.

There are many DOF adapters, such as Letus, Cinevate, SGBlade etc. Go to the 35mm adapter section and you'll find plenty of info on each.

[floop]

Well i still need some advice.

Should i consider the canon eos 5d mark 2 or 7d for indie filming?

In my opinion, if you plan to shoot with a 35 adapter, the 5d and 7d are very attractive alternatives. Most of the inconvenience of using "stills" lenses or the price of a proper "cinema" lens exists the same on both systems. The dslr route provides you with amazing results in a much more compact size, and instead of being light hungry like most 35 adapter rigs, you likely will have better low light performance than anything you've ever shot before. If you compare the 5d/7d to the p&s mini35, the 5d/7d is like buying a 35 adapter that BRIGHTENS the image a few stops and has a FREE CAMERA built in.

The downsides of shooting with dslrs are often discussed here. Some of the most noteable ones are that audio is more of a hassle, the form factor kinda requires an cagey camera rig and you might get giggles from girls unless you try overcompensating with a matte box and a bottle of hai karate cologne.

and what if a want DOF like the p+s mini35, is there any alternatives?

Bang for the buck i'd opt for a letus35 unit over a p&s. But since you can buy a 7d AND a nice array of lense for the price of a P&S or letus ultimate, i cant see buying a 35 adapter ever again. Now that the dslr video options exist, 35 adapters seem quite primitive to me.

You mentioned earlier that people opted for 5d/7d because they were cheap. Its more than that. The image quality attainable from them is mind blowing if you put any sort of perspective into the evolution of video gear over the last few decades. The only reason the 5d isnt a complete jaw-drop is because of the RED. Had the red not come along, the 5d would be completely mind boggling in terms of image quality, resolution, depth of field and size and even price. In fact, i believe the 7d has the same size sensor as the RED.. and the 5d has an even larger sensor. So if its what you are after, you can get an even narrower depth of field than any other video camera within 50x the price. Crazy.

Now, as most people will chime in... the camera is far from the top priority in the chain of "beautiful image" creation. I'd personally put it closer to story:acting:sound:lighting(dop):art direction:camera. I'd much rather shoot with a vx100 on a beautifully lit and dressed set of an inspiring movie than an overacted bad film shot with a cinealta. But thats me.

$5900 will buy you a 5d plus some lenses. OR it will buy you a pro steadicam rig. OR it will buy you a decent pro sound package. OR it will buy you a nice lighting kit.

you need all those things for a good indie film. Unless you have budget set aside for those things, something has to give. What gets sacrificed depends solely on YOU and what you prioritize as the most important. Nobody elses opinion matters.

Thats my 2c anyways. I've seen some truly amazing stuff done with a 7d and cheap lenses. I'm definitely tempted to get one for shoots where the image takes top priority and outweighs the inconveniences. But then, it makes sense because i already have a great sound package, lighting kit, grip/dolly/crane/jib kit, etc.

Thats my opinion anyways,
cheers!
-andrew

[Heartzz]

Thx i puts some of my thoughts in perspective. Still which is the best canon eos camera? 7d or 5d mark 2?
I heard that there is good alternatives for audio when using a canon eos camera, do you know what a good solution would be?

[Huy Vu]

The only reason the 5d isnt a complete jaw-drop is because of the RED.

That's not the only reason. Funny how nobody ever mentions the lack of professional audio input, the poor form factor (that also contributes to greater rolling shutter) and the aliasing due to low resolution. If these cameras weren't a dirt cheap way to get shallow DOF they wouldn't be worth anything at all as video cameras.

This is exactly why I kept repeating the need to do research and figure out what your needs are; because if you just ask for recommendations general statements like this comes up.

[david_p]

That's not the only reason. Funny how nobody ever mentions the lack of professional audio input, the poor form factor (that also contributes to greater rolling shutter) and the aliasing due to low resolution. If these cameras weren't a dirt cheap way to get shallow DOF they wouldn't be worth anything at all as video cameras.

This is exactly why I kept repeating the need to do research and figure out what your needs are; because if you just ask for recommendations general statements like this comes up.

floop's indepth post offered up a lot of great info to the OP plus some good and thought out opinions as to the whole package of what is needed for an effective production.

here is my advice to the OP...

you have to start somewhere but you dont have near enough budget to get all things needed but hardly anyone does when starting out.

if i was in your situation i would go with either the 5D or 7D given your budget. i dont personally care much for the 7D compared to the 5DmkII but to save a $1,000 and in your situation...id go with the 7D.

handheld rig, tripod, lights, audio...? i think the one area you could *chesse at this point* is the lighting and just build your own white diffusion screens and use appropriate wattage work lights behind the softeneing screens. not pretty but even cheap worklights that are "diffused" can work fine in a pinch.

its nearly impossible to handhold a DSLR and have the outcome look professional so, some rig is necessary. there are cheaper India made as well as others that can be gotten for a fraction of a red rock or zacuto which is horribly out of your budget. i just use a DVTech multirig pro and im happy for now. i focus with my left hand on the barrel of the lens. no FF yet for me and i dont really miss it. on certain lenses i have a little lever that i attach when used on a tripod.

if your using a DSLR IMO must have an eyepiece like the Hoodloupe $100, Zfinder $400, LCDVF $159, Cavision (?)...etc attached to pull focus. i use the Zfinder but used to use the much cheaper Hoodloupe which worked decent but the Zfinder is better.

you can find some fairly cheap older canon or nikon primes to attach. at my local camera store there are lots of cheap manual lenses from 50-300 dollars that would get you going for now. you can get an adaptor for nikon lenses for about $60. a few current canon lenses that you could afford that would link nicely with the 7D would be their 50mm 1.8 or the 85mm 1.8. wont break the bank. if low on cash though find yourself some older MF for now.

tripod? libec sells some that are a good bang for the buck. manfrotto has some that are good for a cheap price. you get what you pay for but on your budget you cant be too picky.

there are a lot of options for audio. i have the Zoom H4n. its got 2 condensors built in and has two XLR inputs for addtional mics. i usually use a Sennheiser shotgun with the RODE Blimp/deadcat. i also have a Lectrosonics wireless/lavalier setup. not cheap though and i personally wouldnt waste money on the cheapest wireless system. so i would do without before i throw money away. i would keep your audio off of the 7D though. slate your starts with a clapper and lining up in post is pretty easy. your 7D audio is only for reference to line stuff up.

being that the 7D is small and light you could get by with a glidecam 2000HD or a Merlin if your hot to get a stablaizer. i have a Steadicam Pilot with vest and all but for a DSLR you could make due with the above mentioned for now. its tough to handhold for too long though without the vest and arm...but can be done.

even though RED always comes into the discussion... in your budget it isnt really relevant. the bang for the buck from a DSLR is astounding and like floop said the low light performance is amazing. this can also greatly cut down on the wattage needed to light a set.

good luck
david
www.davidprobst.com

[Heartzz]

many thanks David!

I know i can't buy it all and most of the audio equipment if not all can be borrowed or rented cheap in my case. It's just i dont know a whole lot about audio with the eos series. Same goes for lighting i know some company where renting is cheap and i could also buy a simple light kit for basic scenes.

Some lenses can also be rented or borrowed pretty cheap, but its never a bad thing to have a couple of good lenses yourself so i will take your advice and look around.

The difference between Denmark and USA is that is much more exspensive and rare to find and buy prosumer stuff for indie filmmakers. Unless you got a lot more to spend on buying or renting, there are not a lot of options unless you get some of the equipment yourself. Thats why i am asking around because i am very nervous about what to buy(mainly a camera).

Also having a camera makes it much easier just to fool around and learn by doing. But i might as well get a good one i can use for serious business instead of spending the same amount of money on renting something a couple of times over year or something.

btw would it be totally stupid to buy a canon xl h1 nowadays? even if lets say i could get it for around 400 euros?

last question, any good link, pictures, articles on filming with the eos series? mainly looking for inspiration on how to solve the rig, audio etc. stuff.

thx everyone!

[david335]

I am going to echo the suggestion that you checkout the 7d/5d forums. But if you really want the nice dof I am going to recommend the a dslr and I think that 7d will work best for you because it has 24p.

You could probably get a 7d + a set of decent primes (50 1.4, 28 1.8, 85 1.8, 100 2, 20 2.8) + a gini rod rig (here & here for discussion) + audio device (h4n or similar) + Memory + other items (tripod, batteries, cases, etc) for your budget, You may even be able to get a basic audio kit with the left over money.
I can only speak to American prices but for the canon gear it should be pretty similar, the 7d is $1700 + Lens Kit ~$2k + Audio Device $300 + Memory (CF Cards 2x16gb 60mbps) $240 + Tripod $400 + Rails Kit $350(dslr-17) + $500 for cases & batteries & etc. The only thing that may be harder to find is the audio device or the rails kit. The other stuff is also photo stuff so it is pretty widely available internationally.