Corrado Part II

[Martay]

Wow.

Lot's of activity. Lionel can you go to work on my thread for STEP OFF

I'm sure you'll find faults with it but I could use the activitiy in my thread.

It's available on Netflix, iTunes, etc. and currently on STARZ On Demand.

Seriously, I think you have gone a little overboard on the movie. Bad Ass which I have seen and agree it isn't a very good movie. However, it did meet the genre standards and having a name made it a viable movie product that found distribution. There are many technically worse films of all budget levels that have made it out into release.

This thread has certainly been a NET positive regardless of the quality of the movie in question so I think that has tempered even the harshest potential critics.

Kholi is right to note that most here like to cheer successes as it is a community.

So, take that as an explanation as to why folks haven't been as adequately harsh as you would like them to be about the movie's shortcomings.

I haven't seen Adam's second movie "Tactical Force" as yet but it is in my Netflix queue as are any DVX user films that I am aware of that are commercially available.

So, hopefully this has spurred more interest in users acually watching a film that has become available to wide audience for a fellow board poster and I definitely invite you to help spur interest in my own feature that is available.

Martin

[tieuellegacy]

Actually, I think that a larger tragedy is that some filmmakers and musicians are thoroughly supported when everything is on the up and up but they are ignored in large part once their project hits the market. Some of these filmmakers are giving online classes on DVXuser about how they created their budgets, casted the movies, filmed it, edited (sound and action), and distro'd it but many people don't give back by watching and being constructively critical. That's amazing to me. Is it because they can't afford the $2 rental or the suggested purchase of $25? I can understand the latter way more than the former. Tieuel Legacy! in Motion

[prexdealer]

Actually, I think that a larger tragedy is that some filmmakers and musicians are thoroughly supported when everything is on the up and up but they are ignored in large part once their project hits the market. Some of these filmmakers are giving online classes on DVXuser about how they created their budgets, casted the movies, filmed it, edited (sound and action), and distro'd it but many people don't give back by watching and being constructively critical. That's amazing to me. Is it because they can't afford the $2 rental or the suggested purchase of $25? I can understand the latter way more than the former. Tieuel Legacy! in Motion

That is a pretty fair point. But I sometimes don't comment only because I didn't care much for the movie I saw and the filmmaker doesn't want to hear anything bad. I have noticed on several occasions people asking for constructive criticism and it seems that they mean positive criticism. For example, this thread.

http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthread...e-Horror-Short

I posted a comment on post #5 of this thread. Which I pasted below.

[QUOTE​] I thought it looked pretty good.

But, and this is meant to be constructive, but your emphasis on constructive criticism, makes it seem like you will deem what is appropriate. People give feedback all the time, you may or may not agree. But the way you said it didn't make it seem like you are open to feedback. So what if someone hates it, hopefully, the person says "I acknowledge you for completing a short, it didn't work for me for these reasons, but good job on getting something done." But not all people speak that way, but that doesn't mean their comments are not valuable. I don't know if you see what I am trying to get at. Not liking your short does not mean negativity.

Life is constantly giving me feedback, I may not agree with what is being told to me, but there may be something there if I choose to listen. It is like that expression "Everyone I meet is my teacher." I get the anonymous nature of the internet makes it possible for people just to be mean for fun. But, I think everyone who is an artist, or creative type gets how hard it is make art and how it is hard not to take some comments personally. People on this board seem pretty supportive. I am trying to be supportive here as well.

Personally, I liked it from a visual perspective but I am not sure if there was a story there.[/QUOTE]

Ok, I have no idea on how to do quotes. LOL.

[tieuellegacy]

Great points.

I think that it's valid for the filmmaker to make rebuttals. In the case that I just read, I don't think that they were overly against anything that was said. My guess is that the "hated it" part meant that they didn't want to be bashed in front of everyone. Clearly, there's a difference between being degrading and offering assistance toward making things POP in the story.

I understand not liking a film at all but let's step back and think about it. Can we say ANYthing good about these DVXUSER films that could shed light on the things that we don't like. The approach used in that last example was good in my opinion. Hey, I've done my share of bashing to old girlfriends about Sex in the City 2 being the first film that I walked out on (and I got in free). I also cracked on Transformers 2 because the filmmaker even said that he shot with an unfinished script. Yet, I bought Transformers and I'll watch it from time to time. There are good things that I could point out. Those are expensive examples but you catch what I mean.

Personally, I think that filmmakers should protect themselves but be open to criticism. Other people know when the filmmaker is just being sensitive. We also know when a critic is just teeing off on someone's work. Honestly, I love Scarface but I see a lot of people say that it is a flawed movie. They NEVER explain why it's flawed. Give me some substance to work with. Don't just rip the filmmaker. All films have something that can be changed no matter how much you like it. But when you change it for one reason, you lose someone somewhere else.

I applaud you for watching the movie in the first place. That is support to me. You might not see ALL of the films on here but with all of the critics on here, it would be good to people make an attempt.

Tieuel Legacy! in Motion

Tieuel Legacy! in Motion

[prexdealer]

Great points.

I think that it's valid for the filmmaker to make rebuttals. In the case that I just read, I don't think that they were overly against anything that was said. My guess is that the "hated it" part meant that they didn't want to be bashed in front of everyone. Clearly, there's a difference between being degrading and offering assistance toward making things POP in the story.

I understand not liking a film at all but let's step back and think about it. Can we say ANYthing good about these DVXUSER films that could shed light on the things that we don't like. The approach used in that last example was good in my opinion. Hey, I've done my share of bashing to old girlfriends about Sex in the City 2 being the first film that I walked out on (and I got in free). I also cracked on Transformers 2 because the filmmaker even said that he shot with an unfinished script. Yet, I bought Transformers and I'll watch it from time to time. There are good things that I could point out. Those are expensive examples but you catch what I mean.

Personally, I think that filmmakers should protect themselves but be open to criticism. Other people know when the filmmaker is just being sensitive. We also know when a critic is just teeing off on someone's work. Honestly, I love Scarface but I see a lot of people say that it is a flawed movie. They NEVER explain why it's flawed. Give me some substance to work with. Don't just rip the filmmaker. All films have something that can be changed no matter how much you like it. But when you change it for one reason, you lose someone somewhere else.

I applaud you for watching the movie in the first place. That is support to me. You might not see ALL of the films on here but with all of the critics on here, it would be good to people make an attempt.

Tieuel Legacy! in Motion

Tieuel Legacy! in Motion

I just think we live in a "love me" society and we create really insecure children that spend a lifetime working through their stuff. As a hobby, I am a sociologist lol.

I also value my time though and spend it where I think it will make a difference in comments.

As far as Corrado goes, Adam got into the business in a serious way and he is now successful. I believe that was his goal and he had a strategic thought about it. I also sense that he values opinions from people he respects and I don't sense that he respects everyone. But I am like that also, because some people want to come off like a great person helping you out, but really they just wanna look like a good guy. So I always evaluate who is providing the comment. Call it a defensive mechanism, but really it is just trying to make progress by focusing on the comments that allow me to grow. Trust me I have heard some seriously painful feedback but it came from people I respected.

But to the movie specifically - from what I can recall since it has been a year since I saw it. The sound had issues and it was dark in moments. I liked the opening sequence when it established the main character. I guess it is a mob movie which explains some of the crazy wardrobe colors - very bright. The story was better than most first time movies - I at least cared enough to watch it rather than multi-task. There were some good scenes. From a technical aspect, yes there were some issues, but the story and acting I thought were at least decent.

And keep in mind this was his first feature, he had done some shorter projects I think before. And most professionals are there own worse critics, I bet nothing we could say he does not already know. But his objective, I think, was to become a pro and he is now.

He isn't on here anymore to share his knowledge. I hope it is just because he is too busy and not because it is because some people got too annoying to waste his time here.

There is a lot of crap that has gotten distribution and some of it has been made by our fellow members (sorry), but they got it done and hopefully got paid. I see no point sometimes to comment because I am sure they know the issues with their films (if it does have issues), if they are truly objective. If not, I don't think it my job to try and shatter their world to feel better about myself. I find it rare to find people who truly measure their comments before making them. In this world, it is about stream of consciousness thinking mixed in with our personal own issues. That comment I made on that short, I read it over a few times to make sure it struck a respectful tone (or tried to at least).

This is a journey. And I am grateful to EVERY SINGLE PERSON who is willing to share their experience with us. When they talk about the challenges and the victories and the defeats.

Many thanks to those who have gone onto the field and battled. Here is one of my favorite quotes. From Teddy Roosevelt.

It is not the critic who counts: not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles or where the doer of deeds could have done better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood, who strives valiantly, who errs and comes up short again and again, because there is no effort without error or shortcoming, but who knows the great enthusiasms, the great devotions, who spends himself for a worthy cause; who, at the best, knows, in the end, the triumph of high achievement, and who, at the worst, if he fails, at least he fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who knew neither victory nor defeat.

[FilmBoy77]

He isn't on here anymore to share his knowledge. I hope it is just because he is too busy and not because it is because some people got too annoying to waste his time here.

He's a regular poster over at Filmspecific.com

He's said multiple times in this thread, the first Corrado thread and in interviews that he knows what shortcomings his film had especially after making one on a higher budget with more resources. Adam's definitely not losing any sleep over anybody's comments about Corrado. The film has to stand on its own.

Some of these filmmakers are giving online classes on DVXuser about how they created their budgets, casted the movies, filmed it, edited (sound and action), and distro'd it but many people don't give back by watching and being constructively critical.

Took the words right out of my mouth. I can't understand why anybody would read hundreds of pages of this thread and not even check the movie out to see how it turned out.

[prexdealer]

Yes, he is at Filmspecific and contributes regularly. He is a real resource.

As far as people watching it, I think to each their own. And what I mean by that is, let's be fair, each person is different. If you look at society as a whole, I don't think manners or spelling is getting any better. Not even sure about my punctuation anymore!

Not trying to be a jerk, but I have finally learned is that I can't judge people for how they behave. I have moments when I fall back into "judgement" mode, but people do their own thing.

As far as giving goes, someone once told me when you give, you expect nothing back. When you do it is called trading.

Adam and others have been so kind to share, but I never read Adam saying he wanted something back. Maybe he had some questions in the beginning and got some support for the board. But I think he was just being a giving person.

[FilmBoy77]

Personally, I'm not talking about giving back on that last line above, I should've clarified my point rather than just quoting a sentence I mostly agree with, but I'm just talking about people who've followed his progress from day 1 and never checked out the finished product as a learning experience on what to do or not to do. It's like reading a book for weeks and then skipping the last chapter. Just my opinion.

[HDkilledFILM.]

The thing most people forget is that when you make a movie people won't view it while keeping in mind the handicaps that you faced in production. This includes people on these forums. If you get negative reviews people will ignore the project. And while I think the movie was solid, not everyone agrees on that. In the end the same medium (The interhell) Adam used to help make the project and get it out to the world also may have hamper it's success (Trolls, Critics etc...). Maybe people had unrealistic expectations, or expected something different then what they got and they went to the net and posted about it.

BUT...

...at the end of the day Adam made a movie and got it distro, leveraged his success and moved on. This is EXTREMELY hard to do. Even if you make a movie and get it distro it's still a battle to get funding for the next one, even if that film is a success. The unique thing about Adam is that beyond having that success he documented how it came to be and shared it with the world. Regardless of what anyone says critically or otherwise his path is the one far less traveled and for one I'm thankfull for all the info he shared, it helped make me a better film maker!


...He also managed to get Tom Sizemore to give a good performance right at the peek of his drug addiction and I'm sure that didn't go unnoticed by producers either!

[tieuellegacy]

Filmboy77 and Prexdealer,

I definitely understand why take the positions that you have. In a moment, I want to take a step back to ask you in a different way.

First, I'll say that Bad Ass is in my Amazon cue for purchase so I haven't seen it yet (boo's are loud in the coliseum). I'm interested in seeing it. I don't think that I've had any exchange with Adam yet I value what I've read and I value how he responded in the moments that I read. And honestly, I did compare his thread to another thread or two that I felt wasn't giving enough credit to the people that helped with their project. It feels good to read the honesty of people on the page especially when it's done fairly and with a bag of scruples.

Secondly, I'm not proclaiming to never have bashed a film or not to boycott certain movies. There are movies that I run to the store for and there are ones that I let fall by the wayside. I am, however, a guy that purchases more movies than I rent so my stance on this might be skewed. Honestly, I have somewhat of a DVD problem. Used films alone, I bought over 100 in March and April (What can I say? A few Blockbusters brick and mortars were going out of bidness). We can have the argument about buying used versus new on another thread if you like. That should be interesting.

Thirdly, not proclaiming that my short films, ads, and other clips don't have faults. I know many of the faults when I release these shorts or ads.

Now let's step back.

I know the saying about giving and I practice that with money myself. Give an amount that you won't expect in return. We are filmmakers. Most of us are probably not gearing our lives toward being HOME filmmakers. We are picking brains for distribution rights, how to find an inexpensive Red Epic prototype, and color grading techniques. That means that we're not trying to do cheesy porn (Red is to complex to hold during those scenes...so I've heard). Not everyone will have to make $20k or more to be happy about the film but somewhere in there a return has to be received.

What is the goal of most filmmakers? It is to MAKE ANOTHER FILM.

How do we do that if we don't receive responses? How do we do that if we don't put butts in seats or pictures on home television/monitors? Investors want their money back. Grantors want proof that you will do what you say with the money. It's proven in many cases that the people who watch don't even have to like the movie. As long as people watch (bootlegs don't count), money is going somewhere. Investors are then paid. Investors then reinvest. Low and behold, another movie by an acclaimed director named Eye Shoot!

I say that to say this. Adam can do this out of the kindness of his heart but we all need a return to continue. That can be a financial return. It can be a spiritual return. Remember, there are people that say that don't need friends or they don't need girlfriends. Those are typically the people that can't get friends and can't get girlfriends. It's kind for someone to give without returns but it's also draining after a certain point. Anyone that dedicates that much time to a blog that people constantly hit shouldn't have to seek support. I'll say the same thing about Martay (he didn't know that I would mention his name but I have been paying attention). He's a wealth of information on what to do and what not to do. Plus he's a nice guy (Martin, You owe me for that).

I don't have thousands of posts in DVXuser but my feeling is that the site was created for support and education. There is even a post about ETIQUETTE while on the site. It's an online film school run by the people and the people's people. Why not give back in some way? Wouldn't some people think that he was an asshole if he constantly BEGGED (not asked) for attention, money, and ratings? In many cases I wouldn't because Nike, McDonald's and the Dark Knight people do it all the time. Oprah is a perfect example of how it could go awry. She asked people to tune into OWN last month and critics went negative about her trying to boost her Nielsen ratings. I don't understand why. Can anyone help me with that? What is a broadcast if people don't watch or listen? If the ratings go lower than expected, ANY show is out of business. That's the same with many filmmakers (and musicians).

My film friends Pete and Ant at the Double Down Film Show asked for comments on iTunes. After bringing on celebrities, cinematographers, producers, and writers only a handful gave them a review. We complain about not getting the content that we want and then when we get it, we don't TRULY support it (with the exception of Tyler Perry fans...they are the second most dedicate fans I've ever seen after Prairie View A&M football fans. They lost about 80 games in a row literally). It's a brilliant show on Blogtalkradio.com with two NYU grad filmmakers that are now NYU teachers. Check it out and tell them I sent ya.

Really this isn't a rant. I can type this with a smile yet I really don't understand it. Adam disappeared once due to crazy responses (I believe). He comes back to offer more info about his process and the support dwindled. Not everyone has to like the film or 100% kind words but it would be nice to have constructive crit and make an attempt to watch the movie. I'll give my feedback after I buy it.

Prexdealer, your critique of the film above is a good one. If the filmmaker ripped you for that, then they would just be sensitive. But this is a sensitive subject that we deal with. It could widen the dialogue. Things can be learned from it.

By the way, I like that sociologist comment.

Prexdealer, I judge people, food, and places all of the time. Yo comprendolo. I don't expect everyone to play fair (note: I just bought Rest Stop 1 and 2 and it was hard for me to get through 10 minutes of the first one). Often I play the part with my glass half empty rather than half full. Comprendolo. I still can't help but wonder why people take, take, take without giving 10 cents every now and then. These aren't beggars on the corner. These are people that have lived in the house (dvxuser house) for a while. Kick a brotha a dime every now and then.

Tieuel Legacy! in Motion