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    Advice
    #1
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    I am on the verge of investing in a new camera for documenting work, like concerts, theatre performances, corporate videos and short films and up until the EX1 came out I was already to get a HVX 200 now I am not so sure.

    After seeing the footage of the EX1 it looks great and would work nicely with my m2 as the EX1 has good low light performance. When this is added to the price with 2 8gb cards it becomes very tempting but there are some issues I wanted to get some advice on. I have a G5 Dual 2GHZ with AJA LH in, (and a MBP 2.4 which I would rather not edit on) I am not sure how the old G5 will cope with the long GOP of the EX1 and if I have to upgrade my computer that has to be factored in. So do I go with the
    EX1
    Higher resolution, good low light, good LCD display, good record time on 2 8gb cards.

    HVX200
    Proven track record, works well with G5 and AJA card, better codec

    Cheers for any advice you can give me.
    Steve


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    #2
    Senior Member philip bloom's Avatar
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    my choice would be the ex1, having sold off my hvx. for many reason already mentioned


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    Senior Member ullanta's Avatar
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    Why are you considering either of these cameras? If most of what you're doing is long-form recording, they only become sort of viable with numerous 32GB cards - and redundancy for live events can be problematic.

    I use an HVX for similar things (mainly opera and similar events) - but never alone for critical live recordings. If you want to record dual-system (P2 and firewire) you don't get much time on the cards. And the transfers, large amounts of data to archive and back up, and lack of a tape archive can be nervewracking and occasionally problematic.

    I love my HVX, when it's the appropriate tool, and even when it's a secondary camera for shoots where it's not the ideal tool... but I don't think it's quite ready as a long-form camera for critical live events. I'd say the same for the EX.... great for quality at the price point, imagery, etc... not so great for workflow in a long-form critical situation.
    "I'd like to say that I've never come across two know nothing pretenders on the weird wide web before, but unfortunately it's all too common and is exactly why, according to the last government survey, only 5% of all internet users ever use forums or chats. And it's exactly why I'm done with this one. You two really need to get jobs and out of your mother's basements. You can't fix stupid. And I don't have time for stupid." -swoopie


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    #4
    The Tapeless One LuckyStudio 13's Avatar
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    I dont really think one can shoot good event coverage with just 1 cam. The most economical package solution for LONG event videography IMHO* is the Canon XH-A1 paired with a Canon HV-20.


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    The EX is perfect for the recording of long live events. Don't know why anyone would dismiss it. Two 16g cards will give you close to one hour and 40 min. in the best quality 1080p setting. Obviously more in the HDV quality setting. You gotta change tapes in the canons after only half that time. I mean how long are these long events. I've shot docs and in a full day I've used maybe three to for tapes that would be 4 - 16gig cards and I'm good. No laptop to lug around to transfer full cards and no torturous logging when I get home.


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    Senior Member Stevet's Avatar
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    If Sony pulls through with the firmware upgrade and offers a pre-approved list of Express cards, you'll going to be able to buy two 32GB really cheap.


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    #7
    Senior Member ullanta's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mico View Post
    The EX is perfect for the recording of long live events. Don't know why anyone would dismiss it. Two 16g cards will give you close to one hour and 40 min. in the best quality 1080p setting. Obviously more in the HDV quality setting. You gotta change tapes in the canons after only half that time. I mean how long are these long events. I've shot docs and in a full day I've used maybe three to for tapes that would be 4 - 16gig cards and I'm good. No laptop to lug around to transfer full cards and no torturous logging when I get home.

    Well, 3 hours is common for opera, sometimes 2 shows a day. Especially if you're working alone (but even if you're not), there's often not enough time to transfer, verify, check footage between acts or shows. So, for me to rely on the HVX, I'd need at least six hours of shooting time at 100Mbps ('cause backup over firewire is essential). So, 12 32GB cards? Pricey! 2 days in a row of shooting (also common)? I have to spend the time transferring, verifying, archiving 400GB after the show. LONG day!

    Sure, maybe this is extreme. But not completely uncommon... he did mention theatrical events!

    Also, project management becomes harder if your post-production process takes any time. With tape, you can load your material onto the system when you're ready... keeping things clear for other projects in the meantime. When you have to keep 400GB of data around on hard drives, etc, until you're ready to edit and finish, you end up spending a LOT on hard drives. And when one dies... it's a big problem.

    Again, take this with a grain of salt - I do this. Even as a second camera, the same issues come up with the HVX, and I seem to be doing OK. But it is a REAL PAIN and often I wish I had gone with a tape-based HD approach. Except that Long-GOP sucks, especially under theatrical lighting conditions. Oh well.
    Last edited by ullanta; 12-05-2007 at 05:47 PM.
    "I'd like to say that I've never come across two know nothing pretenders on the weird wide web before, but unfortunately it's all too common and is exactly why, according to the last government survey, only 5% of all internet users ever use forums or chats. And it's exactly why I'm done with this one. You two really need to get jobs and out of your mother's basements. You can't fix stupid. And I don't have time for stupid." -swoopie


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    Quote Originally Posted by ullanta View Post
    Well, 3 hours is common for opera, sometimes 2 shows a day. Especially if you're working alone (but even if you're not), there's often not enough time to transfer, verify, check footage between acts or shows. So, for me to rely on the HVX, I'd need at least six hours of shooting time at 100Mbps ('cause backup over firewire is essential). So, 12 32GB cards? Pricey! 2 days in a row of shooting (also common)? I have to spend the time transferring, verifying, archiving 400GB after the show. LONG day!

    Sure, maybe this is extreme. But not completely uncommon... he did mention theatrical events!

    Also, project management becomes harder if your post-production process takes any time. With tape, you can load your material onto the system when you're ready... keeping things clear for other projects in the meantime. When you have to keep 400GB of data around on hard drives, etc, until you're ready to edit and finish, you end up spending a LOT on hard drives. And when one dies... it's a big problem.

    Again, take this with a grain of salt - I do this. Even as a second camera, the same issues come up with the HVX, and I seem to be doing OK. But it is a REAL PAIN and often I wish I had gone with a tape-based HD approach. Except that Long-GOP sucks, especially under theatrical lighting conditions. Oh well.
    Yeah but thats with the HVX, putting aside the 4:2:0 vs. 4:2:2 issue, the EX wouldn't give you the time constraint issues that the HVX does. And as far as verifying well at the end of the day you got 4 - 16 cards ( which is financially manageable ) just like having four tapes you'd have to verify. You do have to view tapes, right? But with flash cards you'd copy to two hard drives, take one hard drive open up the browser software and click each clip. You either have it or you don't whether it be tape or flash card. You hand over the hard drive, you go home. The thought of going to tape for anything long form makes me cringe.
    Last edited by mico; 12-05-2007 at 06:17 PM.


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    Senior Member ullanta's Avatar
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    My problem is that tape problems tend to be local, while file-based problems tend to be catastrophic. So, even if a tape breaks, has a glitch, etc; it's largely usable and recoverable.

    I guess the lower data rate of the EX does help... I wasn't thinking clearly about that. But there's no redundancy, is there? Can you record FW out and to the cards?

    In general, I don't touch tape. I record direct to Final Cut Pro, and in general operate tapelessly for big events. But It's nice to have a tape in the camera just in case, and for backup. On one occasion, somone accidentally yanked the firewire cable from my hard drive during capture. Times like that, you're glad to have a redundant recording, too!
    "I'd like to say that I've never come across two know nothing pretenders on the weird wide web before, but unfortunately it's all too common and is exactly why, according to the last government survey, only 5% of all internet users ever use forums or chats. And it's exactly why I'm done with this one. You two really need to get jobs and out of your mother's basements. You can't fix stupid. And I don't have time for stupid." -swoopie


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    Quote Originally Posted by ullanta View Post
    My problem is that tape problems tend to be local, while file-based problems tend to be catastrophic. So, even if a tape breaks, has a glitch, etc; it's largely usable and recoverable.

    I guess the lower data rate of the EX does help... I wasn't thinking clearly about that. But there's no redundancy, is there? Can you record FW out and to the cards?

    In general, I don't touch tape. I record direct to Final Cut Pro, and in general operate tapelessly for big events. But It's nice to have a tape in the camera just in case, and for backup. On one occasion, somone accidentally yanked the firewire cable from my hard drive during capture. Times like that, you're glad to have a redundant recording, too!
    I think I read no firewire out while recording but don't quote me. That leaves two redundant possibilities: a usb on the go drive or the HD -SDI out


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