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    #21
    Director of Photography TimurCivan's Avatar
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    yea but thats part in prcel of sony's marketing strategies. They have always been eager to show off "the numbers". Its that whole "Full HD" nonesense they have been pushing in their HD TV lines, it actually caught on with other manufacturers too.

    IT was thier way of saying 1080 is better than 720. Though Since 108060p is unavialable, 720 60p is still the only good option for "video" look HD. they are REALLLY into semantics.

    1080-24p is SUPERIOR to 720-24p. But 720-60p for full frame rate playback IS better than 1080i for the reality look. IT compresses better, and just plain looks better. I think the "Full hd" terminology is just rediculous. Each format benefits a certain use. I hate interlacing and i will NEVER use 1080i. But if i need Video look, i will shoot 720p60p.

    Also.... Just for the record, I am Totally happy with the HVX200's 1080p. ITs sharp for any use i have. No Client has ever complained.
    Cinematographer
    Sigma Pro

    www.timurcivan.com 917-589-4424


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    #22
    Senior Member Elton's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TimurCivan View Post
    yea but thats part in prcel of sony's marketing strategies. They have always been eager to show off "the numbers". Its that whole "Full HD" nonesense they have been pushing in their HD TV lines, it actually caught on with other manufacturers too.

    IT was thier way of saying 1080 is better than 720. Though Since 108060p is unavialable, 720 60p is still the only good option for "video" look HD. they are REALLLY into semantics.

    1080-24p is SUPERIOR to 720-24p. But 720-60p for full frame rate playback IS better than 1080i for the reality look. IT compresses better, and just plain looks better. I think the "Full hd" terminology is just rediculous. Each format benefits a certain use. I hate interlacing and i will NEVER use 1080i. But if i need Video look, i will shoot 720p60p.
    Agreed...but the wrinkle here is the actual spec quoting (for the entry-level HD segment) of very relevant data such as horizontal resolution, S/N ratio and sensitivity. I haven't really seen that for inexpensive HD cameras thus far.

    I fully agree about 720 60p being inherently superior for video look...although HDTV's are getting so good at deinterlacing that both formats look effectivley the same. I know my very inexpensive Vizio 1080p LCD does a phenomenal job of making 1080i look like progressive source. It shouldn't look as good as it does...for HD video look.

    Eventually all the cameras will be native progressive but the reality is that 1080i is an entrenched standard that isn't necessarily bad for video look even with today's progressive-native panels.

    I'm with ya on the "Full HD" marketing garbage too.


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    #23
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    Has the CMOS "wobble" been confirmed or disproven?


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    #24
    Steadi-Guru mikkowilson's Avatar
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    Sony specs always look good. Shame their pictures so often don't.


    Yes, the EX-1 does wobble. How badly has not yet been tested, but I can confirm that it does wobble, based on tripod tests I performed at IBC.

    - Mikko
    Mikko Wilson
    Steadicam Owner / Operator - Juneau, Alaska, USA
    +1 (907) 321-8387 - mikkowilson@hotmail.com - www.mikkowilson.com


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    #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by mikkowilson View Post
    Sony specs always look good. Shame their pictures so often don't.


    Yes, the EX-1 does wobble. How badly has not yet been tested, but I can confirm that it does wobble, based on tripod tests I performed at IBC.

    - Mikko
    Rats....that sucks.

    That alone would definately keep me from buying it.


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    #26
    Senior Member Stevet's Avatar
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    Dang I might have to cancel the two I ordered!, NO WAY man! LOL

    I heard, if it's there, there's not much.
    http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthrea...ghlight=wobble
    Last edited by Stevet; 10-31-2007 at 01:40 PM.


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    #27
    Senior Member Stevet's Avatar
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    For those interested in the EX1 user manual:

    http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showpost....71&postcount=4


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    #28
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    above ex1 user manual link does not work

    be well

    rob


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    #29
    Senior Member snowleopard's Avatar
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    The Manual is linked in this post on DVinfo. in this zipped file. Thought I could embed it here, but nope.

    Here is a link to their new clip browser software.
    Last edited by snowleopard; 11-01-2007 at 12:42 PM. Reason: Grrrrr, bad hyperlink.


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    #30
    Senior Member alpi69's Avatar
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    Ok to the original post:
    - yes it bothers me a lot to be left without SD recording. I sometimes work with and/or for TV networks that need the material. and they need it with a certain realtime timecode. and they usually need to take it home after the shoot. it took me months and months of persuasion to be able to give the P2 content, and they all had to get used to the P2 workflow when working with me etc etc. Some use FCP some use AVID some use Liquid/FAST. But now we are there and it works. They are mostly used to work tapebased which makes sense and to be allowed to deliver in P2 is actually a privilege for me. but all this is in SD. The EX would force me to rent a camera definitely for these gigs. No way would they start converting and I donīt want to force anyone into a new workflow yet again. The funny thing is they are used to XDCam (SD), but the EX uses a new XDCam, many NLEīs will not supply support soon ( I know Liquid/FAST wonīt, probably AVID and Apple are slow also usually). So yes, to be in a new XDCam format in HD only is a dealbreaker for me.
    - the wobble is an issue that comes on top of the HDV GOP and 4:2:0 "problems". Sure many HDV images are awesome and GOP is not often a problem and 4:2:0 vs 4:2:2 is overrated (especially on this board), BUT the fact is there are issues.
    And once you have a client who wants some extreme colours or you have to explain why the image of the lake is not perfect you wish you had a single-frame compression.
    Especially the SONY HDV GOP recording is rather weak. I do a lot of sports and when a guy brought me his "oh so awsome FX1" it took me seconds to show him compression artifacts (shooting moving cars very close so the whole image was a constant movement; it didnīt look as perfect as his tripod-sunset shots from Bali).
    How XDcam 35mbs will hold its own in 1080p will be seen. But I have to admit on Canon cams I yet have to see a problem with the GOP-compression.

    The fact is the HVX is a great cam and even if the 1/2 inch CMOS is extremely interesting and probably quite a bit higher res than the HVX is, it for now has too many questions and a too high introduction price to be bought by ME. This is my subjective view, of course. If I had the money sure I would buy it , use it and sell it if it wouldnīt fit my work.
    But as an investment in my (and my familyīs) future I rather spend these extra thousands in light, an adapter with lenses, tripod head and whatnot that makes more of an impact to the image than the 1/2 inch CMOS.


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