The $300 Recorder Question, or, "Which cheap audio recorder should I get?"

Here are some recent threads that talk about various recorders. They are tagged by the recorder featured in the initial post. Please note that a few of these threads include discussion of comparable (or not-so-comparable) recorders, and a few of them originally inquire about choices between recorders that may not be in the same class.

ZOOM

H4n - Issues with phantom power
H4n - More issues with phantom power generating a high-pitched noise
H4n - in use with Sound Devices MixPre
H4n - Mic and line level questions
H4n - Battery Life
H4n/H2n - Which one is right for me?
H4n - Pre-amp quality
H2/H4n - H2 with mixer vs. H4n alone
R24 - Alternative to Tascam DR-680?
H6 - Announced for 2013

TASCAM

DR-40 - Introduction of the Tascam DR-40
DR-100 - Seeking alternatives to DR-100
DR-100 - DR-100 vs. H4n
DR-680 - Merits of DR-680, or alternatives (also mentions Edirol, which is now Roland)
HD-P2 - Connection to Sound Devices 302 mixer
DR-680 - DR-680 vs. Zoom H4n when paired with Sound Devices 552 mixer/recorder
DR-60 - Announced at NAB 2013, 4-track recorder aimed at DSLR shooters

FOSTEX

FR-2LE - FR-2LE vs. Tascam DR-680
FR-2 - General questions
FR-2LE - FR-2LE vs. Tascam DR100 vs. Fostex H4n

Thought I'd chime in as I've done some research on the subject.

I don't know if it's against the rules to refer to another forum, but if anyone want's to read more about the lower cost recorders available than the posts found here, including some of the multitrack ones, then a good place is http://taperssection.com/. They have extensive posts on the more popular alternatives examining every possible usage and problem. One of the things they seem to agree on is that the Sony PCM M10 is one of the best small recorders in its price point (without XLR-inputs that is). One of the reasons that is of interest to film recording is that it's one of the few that can take a line in signal of +4dB, which is required if you use a mixer in front. Olympus LS-11 and LS-5 are other very good pocketsize alternatives.

Another good site is http://www.avisoft.com/recordertests.htm that compares the preamp noise of many popular recorders, from sound devices down to Zoom H2. On http://www.rane.com/note148.html you can look at a list to see if the preamp noise will be noticably audible compared to the self-noise of the microphones you want to use.

http://www.wingfieldaudio.com/ has some short reviews of the recorders they offer, and also recordings comparing internal microphones, external through the preamp, and line in.

Another good forum I missed in the first post is
http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/naturerecordists/

People doing nature recordings are very critical about things like self noise and the practicality of the equipment, which to a large degree coincides with the demands in film.

And it's also worth pointing out that these are *new* prices for the most part. I picked up my (virtually) new Fostex from a audio forum Marketplace for $400. Came with lots of extraa too! Audio forum folks are always pushing for the latest and greatest and usually keep their gear in stellar condition. My $.02

A Note About Zoom R-series Recorders

There have also been mentions about the Zoom R-series (R-8, R-16, R-24) as possible location recorders. These bring up an interesting option as affordable, entry-level, multi-track recorders in the +/- $500 range. They feature XLR inputs with phantom power. There are some things to note, however.

Form factor: these are neither hand-held nor bag-friendly. They're suited for cart-based use, as they have the form factor of a small-format mixing console. This means that you'll need to have a boom op (or two) and a sound mixer operating the machine... so this is not for the one-man-band (unless you're dealing strictly with lavs). Also, the meters leave a lot to be desired, so best of luck keeping accurate track of your levels.

Inputs: The R-8 has only two XLR ins, and can record only two tracks at a time. That pretty much makes it the least viable option (why go with such a form factor when you cannot record 8 simultaneous tracks?). The R-16 and R-24 are both equipped with 8 XLR ins and the ability to record 8 simultaneous tracks.

Pre-Amps: Don't expect amazing things. These are low-end recording devices, and Zoom's recorders are not known for the quality of their pre-amps.

Recording Format: The R-16 cannot record higher than 16-bit/44.1kHz unless used as a computer interface. Since 16/48 is the standard for video (and 24/48 is highly recommended), it's pretty much out of consideration. The R-24 can record 8 tracks of 24-bit/48kHz audio.

So of the three, the R-24 is really the only viable option. Still, keep in mind that the pre-amps are not going to be stellar, and your signal can be only as good as the weakest link in the chain.

Any thoughts on the Roland R-26?

Specs look good, but I have yet to play with one. Anyone else?

Hey guys...I'm stumped with my rode ntg-2, when I use it with my h4n, the audio is so low coming in but when I use my sennheiser me66 the audio is so much louder. Any ideas why this would be, the rode is brand new?

I don't believe audio specs anymore, as many of the manufacturers either fib or leave out pertinent information.

The key things I want to know about any audio field recorder are:

1- What is the actual noise floor ?

2- How long do the batteries last ?

3- If the recorder has built-in mics, what do they sound like ?

4- How noisy are the mic pre-amps ?

...When I bought my Olympus LS-11, I was surprised to find out ( through testing ) that the noise floor was 10+ dB better than my older Olympus LS-10 recorder. The Olympus reps kept saying there wasn't much difference between the LS-10 and LS-11 models, but the truth was that these guys really didn't know. By doing my own tests I found the following main differences between these two models: The LS-11 had a 10+ dB lower noise-floor, the LS-11 had a better sounding low-end ( 150 Hz roll-off filter was gone ), a pair of rechargeable AA batteries would last 17 hours on one charge.

I would love to see somebody publish easily repeatable tests ( so that we can confirm the results ) that demo the actual performance of these field recorders. I will try and do this later this Spring if I can round up enough recorders to test. ( I own or have access to the following: Olympus LS-10 and LS-11, Zoom H1, Zoom H4n, Tascam DR-100, but I would like to throw more units in to the mix )

Lake Films, your question would be better served as it's own thread, rather than in a "stickie" post about under 300 recorders.

Dingo, I would love to see the results of that test. I would volunteer to help you on that, as I have a unique perspective on manufacturers, since I used to work for one.

Originally Posted by Doc Bernard

Dingo, I would love to see the results of that test. I would volunteer to help you on that, as I have a unique perspective on manufacturers, since I used to work for one.

Coolio. I'll send you a PM when I'm closer to doing the test. ( likely sometime in February )

Any thoughts on the zoom h4n?

Thanks for your great stickie Alex! What do you think of *used* higher-end options such as a Fostex pd-6 or even a FR-2 as a field recorder? Obviously there are issues with trusting that the machine is still in decent shape, etc. And it seems that some of these older, nice machines might not be very suitable for "bag" field recording (operating with a boom etc).

Anyone looking into the new azden fmx-dslr? For $285 it seems like a good choice to me over something like the h4n. I am just hesitant because it just came out and I would like to see some reviews on it first. Anyone have thoughts on it?

Originally Posted by qwerty123

What do you think of *used* higher-end options such as a Fostex pd-6 or even a FR-2 as a field recorder? Obviously there are issues with trusting that the machine is still in decent shape, etc. And it seems that some of these older, nice machines might not be very suitable for "bag" field recording (operating with a boom etc).

Most of the higher-end recorders, new or used, are perfectly suitable for bag use. Used can be a great way to get what you want/need at a better price. As you say, you do need to be certain of the history and condition of the unit. As always, know your seller and "buyer beware".

Check out used Sound Devices recorders. They maintain their values a bit more than others, but you can still find some good deals.

Originally Posted by tby

Anyone looking into the new azden fmx-dslr? For $285 it seems like a good choice to me over something like the h4n. I am just hesitant because it just came out and I would like to see some reviews on it first. Anyone have thoughts on it?

The fist thing I notice is that it's from Azden. That's strike one.

No metering. Strike two.

Built-in AGC that's always on. Strike three, it's out. No need to go into all the other things I see in this box that make it a poor choice.

If you could get the Tascam DR100 and the Roland R-26 for the same amount (as I have an option currently) which one would you get. The R-26 looks really nice with the big touch screen and with nice gain controls in the front. In the near future I'll also pair it up with a mixer. Probably Mixpre-d. The only thing that I find better about DR100 is it's battery life. It has dual batteries that together last as I understand it 5 hours with one phantom power in use.

Hi am making a short film with a 5d and low budget and was thinking of buying a Sony Pro Walkman WM-D6C for field recordings
for the ambient soundtrack. Dialogue sync won't be an issue as I'll record this on something else.

The sound on the walkman's is really warm and clear-however would it be more advisable to buy something like a zoom h4n-
how do these compare in terms of sound quality? (-: Bebe

Originally Posted by BEBEQUICK

Hi am making a short film with a 5d and low budget and was thinking of buying a Sony Pro Walkman WM-D6C for field recordings for the ambient soundtrack.

What mics are you planning on using ?

FYI: I am teaching an introductory course on video production and have been looking for a low cost, but good sounding digital recorder. So far the winner in the low cost category is the Olympus LS-7, which sells for about $160. The LS-7 mics are very good, and the RMS noise floor of the recorder is -67 dB ( without limiter ) and -60 dB ( with limiter ) recording at 48 kHz 16-bit, which is the essentially the same as the Zoom H4n. ( -66 dB without limiter 48 kHz 24-bit ) A pair of AAA batteries will power the LS-7 recorder for 30+ hours. If you want a low cost recorder with a better noise floor, the Tascam DR-100 has a RMS noise floor of -89 dB recording at 48 kHz 16-bit/24-bit. ( bit depth makes no difference on the noise floor for this model )

Originally Posted by BEBEQUICK

Hi am making a short film with a 5d and low budget and was thinking of buying a Sony Pro Walkman WM-D6C for field recordings
for the ambient soundtrack. Dialogue sync won't be an issue as I'll record this on something else.

The sound on the walkman's is really warm and clear-however would it be more advisable to buy something like a zoom h4n-
how do these compare in terms of sound quality? (-: Bebe

I wouldn't recommend going with a cassette-based recorder. It may say "professional" on it, but this opens you up to a myriad of challenges. (Note: this machine has been discontinued for a decade now.) Analog cassette tape is a flaky and unreliable medium that has inconsistent speed, and even though you say sync won't be an issue, I cannot in good conscience tell you that this is a good idea. Plus, what you can get from a digital recorder these days for ambient sound beds rivals what the high-end (read: 4- and 5-figure list price) audio recorders offered 20 years ago. And even with Dolby B and C noise reductions available, the noise floor is going to be noticeable.

If you want a basic, usable recorder, go with the Tascam DR-40. I keep one in my kit and use it often to grab quick sound beds. It's great to have in the pocket of my sound bag... if something happens between takes, it's at the ready to grab a stereo recording with the on-baord mics, and I don't have to worry about my main mixer and recorder.

Personally, I'm not a fan of Zoom even though (or maybe because) I used to have one.