Quick question about building websites...

[Rick Meyer]

I haven't a clue what the best software is for building websites.....I've never built one....now, there is no urgency...I'm just interested in learning how to do it....I wanna buy some software and get to it....

Any input? Software suggestions? And, what about the learning curve...steep?

Thanks!
Rick

[Mike McNeese]

Learn HTML, CSS, javascript, and PHP. It's free to learn and code yourself, and whether or not you 'upgrade' to a web-design application later, you will NEED to know some HTML.

My 2¢

[Rick Meyer]

Thanks for the input! I was also asking a friend who knows how to build websites. Her advice is similar to yours...learn HTML and Javascript then a 'mainstream' web authoring tool such as DREAMWEAVER.

She suggests the VISUAL QUICKSTART GUIDES for HTML and JAVASCRIPT. Any other HOW TO books that I should consider instead?

Thanks!
Rick

[Jeff Anderson]

In addition to learning all the coding as Mike suggested I gotta say learn dreamweaver too. Adobe has the free trial on their website (30 days of full functioning web building power). The adobe classroom in a book series has always treated me well for their apps, I imagine their dreamweaver book is a good one as far as learning that program.

[Mike McNeese]

Now, I am BY NO MEANS even remotely 'good' at web stuff. Like many of us here, I am a jack-of-all-trades and I wanted to design, build and maintain my own site. So, find a grain of salt when I say this: The VIEW SOURCE function of your browser is your friend. I hate reading, and no one ever came out with a movie on how to build web sites, so I learned out of necessity, and as I got to a point where I didn't know how to do what I wanted to do, I'd find a site that has what I want, and see how their code works. I didn't copy code, but I studied how it was structured.

From there I moved on to designing sites with PS...yes, Photoshop, then converting them to a slick website in ImageReady. I know it's not the best way to do it, but I didn't have to spend any extra money, and it does exactly what I wanted it to do.

Also, be sure to check out a lot of on-line tutorials. Rest assured that you are NOT the first person to do what you want to do with your site. I guarantee you that there are some tutorials out there that will tell you what you need to know. And having a reference like the Quickstart book that your friend recommended would probably be a HUGE help.

Having said all of that, the hardest part of web design is designing a page that looks how you want it to look; something that works FOR your user, and not just looks snazzy; and something that gives an impression that you want to project. Knowing what you want to do with a site is more than half the battle - just about anything can be done, and with a little digging, you'll figure it out.

[Steve_Arm]

Grab Dreamweaver and start practicing.
Learn the basics of XTML, pretty much that's the concept: a tag always has an end tag.
Start with a div: <div></div>, give it a id attribute: <div id="test"></div>, then add to it a style: #test { width:50px; height:50px; background-color:#FF0000;}.
After you play and see what the css properties do, start reading CSS.
Then you'll be in a lot of trouble with various css problems like browser compatibility and "what's that thing doing there?".
Good luck. It takes years to master.

[Rick Meyer]

Thanks guys for the input. I will definitely check out those Quickstart guides and take it from there.

Jdajda- Dreamweaver is definitely on my list after I figure out how to get up and running with HTML and possible Javascript as well...

[snodart]

I have an older edition of this book (http://www.amazon.com/XHTML-Sixth-Visual-Quickstart-Guide/dp/0321430840/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1/104-1218581-9261520?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1181072332&sr=8-1), but it rules. It is all you need to get started with HTML and CSS.

I have several of the other "visual quickstart guide" books as well. Some of them are pretty good, but the HTML one by Elizabeth Castro in the link above is excellent. After you get that book down, then you should look into some basic PHP. PHP can be overwhelming, but some of the basic stuff will make life much easier if you are coding by hand.

[Rick Meyer]

Good luck. It takes years to master.

That doesn't scare me at all. :huh:

Thanks again everybody. Im going to buy that quickstart book Snodart...

[gco]

Thats the Spirit!
I'm buying that book as well.
Thanks McNeese for that tip on checking VIEW SOURCE.

[Capt Quirk]

You also need to brush up on your graphics skills. Artwork and layout is important too. Don't overdo it with colors and fonts, and above all else, keep it simple, fast, and functional.

[tumbleweed]

I just recently decided to create a website and I have zero knowledge of html or any of the other programming. A friend suggested iWeb (it comes as part of iLife 06). It is basically websites for dummies. All I can say is it works. It's user friendly and I was able to get a site up and going with working video quickly. Good luck.

[snodart]

The only thing to keep in mind with editors that do all the coding for you behind the scenes, is that the code isn't always compatable across all browsers. I'm not sure how well iWeb fairs in this matter, but it would be worth googling into first.



You also need to brush up on your graphics skills. Artwork and layout is important too. Don't overdo it with colors and fonts, and above all else, keep it simple, fast, and functional.


Excellent, excellent advise. I built my personal website 3 different times until being happy with it. It went from being flashy and intricate with the first version to simple and straight forward in the final version.

[Capt Quirk]

Dreamweaver used to be able to remove IE specific codes, as well as allow you to preview in whatever browser you wanted. It would also error check the code for you. And, to be on the safe side, there is a website garage that will check your code, your links, and your graphics.

[Tom Marshall]

Dreamweaver is a good choice. Adobe just bought out Macromedia, so if you purchase one of the CS3 packages, look for one that includes Dreamweaver.

If you want a PHP book, then get O'Reilley's "Learning PHP". All of the O'Reilly books are excellent and if you ask any programmer what books he or she recommends, I can guarantee that they will be on the list. I would also get an HTML book and CSS book from O'Reilley as well.

I've been doing this a long long time (programming side of things) and there's a lot to learn. You kind of need to focus on a narrow aspect of web design / development and work on getting good at that particular aspect.

[Steve_Arm]

I'll have to disagree with people suggesting here PHP.
PHP is a full-feature language. You can expect to learn php if you haven't been taught at least one programming language or programming fundamentals. Unlike web design (HTML etc) where you have visual interfaces, programming doesn't, you must have it all in your mind. It might sound a bit discouraging but that's the truth.

To add to that, there is a lot more than echo() and mysql_query() in PHP. You have to know what sessions are, how they work, how a server works and many other things, I can go on for hours. :beer:

[Capt Quirk]

I got into web design, purely for creativity. When it comes to PHP, SQL, Perl... it's all geek to me. I don't have the capacity for that kind of coding. I have a good grasp of HTML, and could actually write pages in a text or word program- but a WYSIWYG editer almost makes it simple.

[Rick Meyer]

Considering my head is swimming now with all this talk of PHP, HTML, CSS, PPHT, MLC, USS Minnow talk...Im guessing programming is OUT!

So, can I skip HTML and move right to Dreamweaver?

PS Thanks for the advice. I'd like to think of all of you as my extended-geek family.

[Capt Quirk]

You can skip HTML and dive into Dreamweaver, but it will still help to know the code, and what it does. Doing simple sites, you can forget about PHP and the rest of them.

[dougspice]

I can use an analogy people on this forum should be able to appreciate: using any kind of WYSIWIG software is like using your camera with autofocus, auto iris, and all of that turned on. Until you learn the intricacies of controlling the elements at their most basic level, you're at the mercy of what the software decides is right. Dreamweaver is a pretty damn good "autofocus", but if you intend to keep building websites, you need to get down to source code level. If you want to do it professionally, it's basically a must.

As for books, the O'Reilly reference books are industry standard, and most books Jeffrey Zeldman has written are worth every penny.

[edit: as long as we're talking about software, the only software I use when doing websites is BBedit and the Web Developer extension for Firefox. Maybe I'm old-fashioned. I hear some really nice things about Coda, but have yet to try it myself. Web design is not a profession where you need expensive specialist tools.]

[Capt Quirk]

God... BBEdit brings back memories. Learned that side by side with the Netscape editer back years ago! Dreamweaver was a joy after that :)

Of course, I started out on the freebie Front Page Express and notepad.

[dougspice]

Well, I'm at least happy to say that BBedit has advanced a bit through the ages. Since all I ever used Dreamweaver for was its nice little text editor, I was more than happy to discover BBedit took care of all of my needs, despite its little quirks. After all, we are talking about something you can in fact do in Notepad... how complex does it really need to be? Any features are bonuses, not necessity.

[Tom Marshall]

I use VIM to edit everything. It's a vi clone. I'm a UNIX guy... :)

[oneinfiniteloop]

If you're running OSX, Smultron is a good open source editor that is better than dreamweaver if you're writing your own code.

http://smultron.sourceforge.net/

The only thing I can say is that you should learn the 'standards' way of coding. Too many websites are incompabitible across browsers, not accessible by people with disabilities, and using archaic methods like frames, etc. I learned in my spare time without books and just referenced some websites for free info. Below is a list, start with Tizag and work your way down...you'll figure out everything you need to know with these and some good trial and error.

http://www.tizag.com/

http://alistapart.com/

http://mezzoblue.com/

http://www.csszengarden.com/

http://veerle.duoh.com/

check all the links at the respective sites too...

[Capt Quirk]

I for one spent hours learning to do frames right, and even had to "fix" my instructor's frame exercises so that they would work. I like 'em!

[Rick Meyer]

If you're running OSX, Smultron is a good open source editor that is better than dreamweaver if you're writing your own code.

http://smultron.sourceforge.net/

The only thing I can say is that you should learn the 'standards' way of coding. Too many websites are incompabitible across browsers, not accessible by people with disabilities, and using archaic methods like frames, etc. I learned in my spare time without books and just referenced some websites for free info. Below is a list, start with Tizag and work your way down...you'll figure out everything you need to know with these and some good trial and error.

http://www.tizag.com/

http://alistapart.com/

http://mezzoblue.com/

http://www.csszengarden.com/

http://veerle.duoh.com/

check all the links at the respective sites too...

Thanks! These links are AWESOME! (I am on a PC).

[Mike McNeese]

I use TacoHTML on the Mac - great free little app for code work.

[kai]

As oneinfiniteloop mentioned, most definitely learn a bit about web standards and how to code your site to validate.

Other web thoughts:
CSS is your friend, tables are old school, and good clean design will go a lot further than every photoshop filter and gaudy rollover javascript ever could.

[Capt Quirk]

I like rollovers too...

[Tom Marshall]

...and stay away from Flash!

[Gunnar]

...and stay away from Flash!

Hmm,

Actually, I like Flash sites. Sometimes it looks like a mess when people mix flash with html and put little flash snippets into their html sites. However, if a website is made with flash completely it can look awesome. For example, I like Extreme Music's website very much:

http://www.extrememusic.com (http://www.extrememusic.com/)

People interested in Flash might have a look at SWiSH which is a low cost Flash authoring tool:

http://www.swishzone.com (http://www.swishzone.com/)

Check out the Flash templates they are selling there. A friend of mine who is a photographer used one of these templates for his website:

http://www.sahnefoto.com (http://www.sahnefoto.com/)

Anyone who is just looking for a flash video player for her/his website might have a look at this one:

http://www.jeroenwijering.com/?item=Flash_Video_Player

I haven't tried it yet.. but it does look promising.

Cheers,
Gunnar.

[Tom Marshall]

Hmm,

Actually, I like Flash sites. Sometimes it looks like a mess when people mix flash with html and put little flash snippets into their html sites. However, if a website is made with flash completely it can look awesome. For example, I like Extreme Music's website very much:

http://www.extrememusic.com (http://www.extrememusic.com/)

People interested in Flash might have a look at SWiSH which is a low cost Flash authoring tool:

http://www.swishzone.com (http://www.swishzone.com/)

Check out the Flash templates they are selling there. A friend of mine who is a photographer used one of these templates for his website:

http://www.sahnefoto.com (http://www.sahnefoto.com/)

Anyone who is just looking for a flash video player for her/his website might have a look at this one:

http://www.jeroenwijering.com/?item=Flash_Video_Player

I haven't tried it yet.. but it does look promising.

Cheers,
Gunnar.

The reason I say to stay away from flash is because that's all that we do where I work... do flash websites... and I'm the one who gets stuck doing all the progamming / actionscript garbage... I just hate flash in general. Always have, always will...

[Gunnar]

The reason I say to stay away from flash is because that's all that we do where I work... do flash websites... and I'm the one who gets stuck doing all the progamming / actionscript garbage... I just hate flash in general. Always have, always will...

Hehe :laugh: ... I see and feel with you!

Another very simple way to create a website is using a Wiki. For example, if the webserver supports PHP one could use a PmWiki (http://www.pmwiki.com/). Of course, you should disable all the visual elements (buttons, links) which allow to edit the pages and password protect any edit features. PmWiki has got these options and offers a variety of layout templates which can be adjusted (if required) to give your site a personal touch.

Cheers,
Gunnar.