Canon XL1s or Panasonic DVX100?

[Grug]

Hey guys,

just a quick question. In weighing up my options of which camera to buy - I've been thinking only of HD and getting either a Canon XHA1 or saving up half that price again and getting an HVX200. However, browsing through ebay I've found myself considering buying a second-hand SD camera instead. I could get myself a Canon XL1s (which I use at uni and am quite familiar with-just shot a short surfing doco on one) for around $1650 or a Panasonic DVX100 (which I know very little about other than it was a BIG thing when it came out) for around $1800.

Now what I'm wondering is, for the purpose of practicing my film-making and teaching myself VFX work, would it be worthwhile spending 30% of the cost of a new XHA1 (20% of the cost of a new HVX) to get one of these two cameras instead? And if so, which would you suggest I get and why? Also is there a significant difference in the ability to place vfx and key green screen work in SD as apposed to HD?

Cheers in advance,

Mark

[iain.bason]

I don't know how the XL1 compares to the DVX100, but SD is definitely inferior for green screen work. (The problem is with DV compression, which encodes color information at a lower resolution. The HVX gives you an option for better compression than the XHA1, I think. That's a question for the HVX and Canon forums, though.)

[yohenk]

I'd choose the DVX over the XL1S anytime, simply because of picture quality (which I think is far nicer to look at on the DVX).

However, considering the fast changing to HD now, you might just soon regret that you spend a lot of money on SD. Ofcourse SD is still great now, but if you wish your camera to be a bit more futureproof and you are able to spend the extra money, I'd go HD. From what I've read the XHA1 is a pretty nice camera, especially regarding its price. Almost 2000 dollars is still a lot of money and you get a used camera for that. Save up when possible and have yourself a true gem that will be good years to come!

If you are interested in green screen work, your best bet would probably be the HVX as it can record in a 4:2:2 color space so you have better color information to key out your greens.

[Nathan.Buxton]

I will say with 100% certainty, the DVX is an absolute better camera than the xl1s.

The ONLY advantage the XL1s has is a removeable lens system. My dad owns an xl1, the original xl1, and i have used it extensively. I have also used a DVX briefly.

The picture quality isn't the biggest factor. the xl1 does have TREMENDOUS picture quality... i would say at times better than the DVX. (The xl1 has a softer more natural image, whereas the DVX has lots of "grain" and jagged edges)... BUT... the DVX more than surpasses the xl1 with the gamma curve features. You won't be disappointed with the xl1 picture, but youll be amazed when you see footage form the DVX in squeeze mode, 24p with the cinegamma activated.

Also, the usability of the DVX is much better.

The stock lens system on the XL is cumbersome. The focus and zoom rings are NOT directly linked to the mechanism. So even if you turn the ring the EXACT same amount each time, you will have different zoom or focus settings.... so the ONLY way to judge focus or zoom relatively is by eye. pain in the ass. The dvx has full manual controls. that let you adjust the zoom and focus absolutely precisely every time.

Not only that, but once you use a DVX youll realise how SHITTY the XL menu system for features is.

DVX 100% if its between those two cameras..

That is, unless, you have a LOAD of quality lenses lying around that you can put on the XL (except the types of lenses are limited to what kind of adapter you use, or limited to production canon xl lenses.)

[filmismymedium]

i feel the line between xl1 and xla1 is being blurred. his topic is dvx vs. xla1 not xl1 as his title leads to believe.

[Grug]

No my question is between the dvx100 and the xl1s - I just want to know which I should get if I do decide to buy a second-hand SD camera instead of a new HD camera.

I gather though that most people reckon the dvx would be the way to go (though I do appreciate the fact that this is the dvx section of dvxuser.com!).

[David Jimerson]

Not even a question of being DVXuser.com -- by nearly any measure, the DVX is simply a better camera. I doubt even Canon itself would dispute it.

[HorseFilms]

Not even a question of being DVXuser.com -- by nearly any measure, the DVX is simply a better camera. I doubt even Canon itself would dispute it.

Exactly. That's why they had to come out with the XL2.

[Indywannabe]

No my question is between the dvx100 and the xl1s - I just want to know which I should get if I do decide to buy a second-hand SD camera instead of a new HD camera.

I gather though that most people reckon the dvx would be the way to go (though I do appreciate the fact that this is the dvx section of dvxuser.com!).

Hey Grug,

I just went through the same agony you are going through now. My answer is similar to the other responses.

It's easy to get into a Ford/Chevy debate over which is better, because they both have good features and they both have loyal followers.

My choice was to spend the extra bucks for the HD now rather than later; however, if I was not able to come up with the scratch for the HVX, I would have done exactly what you are doing and would have bought a used cam.

Now....drum roll...based on what I know now about the HVX and the Panasonic features carried over from the DVX, I would go with the DVX for 3 reasons:

1. the DVX frame and scene features
2. many of the features and learning to use them can be carried over to the HVX (which you will absolutely want to go with for HD)
3. the DVX is the hands down choice for the film schools I queried with your same question (I won't tell you which...you make the calls around so you can benefit from your research of the schools)

Buy the DVX and start shooting now. Buy the DVX tapes and books available on this site. Read the huge archive of lessons learned from the senior members on this site.

Wow! these guys (and gals) have centuries of experience you and I can benefit from.



sorry...just thinking outloud again...

[Nathan.Buxton]

Although i'm on the DVX forums, my opinion isnt jaded. I really think the DVX is a better camera even though i've only used an xl1 for any projects. The xl1 can be worked with, but it's not the best choice for most situatons.

When i was first getting to know my way around an XL i thought to myself "DAMN, this is just a consumer camcorder with higher-end accesories on it. no XLR audio (at least on the original), no good focus/zoom controls, no good menu interface, stupid iris click knob, no lcd screen... bah i could go on......

[srproductions]

OK. I have used both the XL1s and the DVX100A, and here's what I have to say.

First of all, image quality isn't much different. They each have their unique looks, but that can be fixed in post if you don't like it.

If you're making films, get the DVX. Simply because of 24p. It's a necessity for filmmaking. If you're doing events or something, by all means get the XL1s. A plus for the XL1s is that it's big, and therefore will impress people. It's just that 60i doesin't cut it in films.

Hope this helps. There's an article in the Article section of this site comparing the DVX100A and the XL2. Just subract the 24p of the XL2, and it's the same as the XL1s.

[David Jimerson]

Well, the XL2 has native 16:9 and true 30p.

[Evro]

I own both XL2 & DVX - I know you're talking about the XL1s, however, if we consider that the XL2 is an improved version of the XL1s, I can tell you that it's almost impossible to emulate the warmth of the DVX with either of these cams.

Remember!! It is more than just resolution or pixel size, OVERALL the DVX just has a sweeter image that is definately more film looking than any XL cam (if that's what you're after). I do agree that the XL cams have a sharper image but for colour rendition and an overal more organic look you can't beat the DVX.

Cheers

[Captain Pierce]

One thing I haven't seen mentioned yet is the XL1S's 16X zoom, compared to the DVX's 10X. That may not make a difference for some people, but I know it does for some (because it does for me :) ). Also, the XL1S with the MA200 shoulder adapter makes a fairly decent shoulder-mounted rig, if a bit front-heavy--although there may be a way to approximate that with the DVX.

OTOH, for tripod-mounted use, the swing-out LCD on the DVX is a distinct advantage.

Have you considered just buying both? :D