HPX3000g

[filmat11]

JAN-Barry, any pricing on this yet ?? I know it's early..best guess ? Thanks

[Nik Manning]

Yeah official Pricing is 1 Arm + a couple Fingers depending on how many P2 cards you want. :) My official guess is $24,000 no lens. Not to bad.

[Kenn Christenson]

This should answer your question:
http://www.vmivideo.com/Newsletter/archive/panasonic_ajhpx3000.html

[Barry_Green]

The HPX3000 has an MSRP of $48,000 for the body only, no lens.

[Joe_Digital]

Does anyone have any new info about the AVC Intra codec? Panasonic keeps saying rivals D5 AND doubling the record time. I just don't see how, but perhaps I can be elucidated.

[Barry_Green]

Well, it uses the most advanced codec available, AVC/H.264 in an intraframe-only implementation at 100 megabits, full 1920x1080 and 4:2:2 and 10-bit color depth. It matches HD-D5 at less than half the bitrate of HD-D5.

OR, you can use AVC-Intra in 50-megabit mode. In that mode it competes with DVCPRO-HD, delivering comparable quality in half the space.

Basically you're looking at a few years' technological growth and refinement, so things are just better and more efficient; they can now do in 50 megabits what it used to take 100, or they can accomplish in 100 megabits what it used to take 250 megabits to do.

[TimurCivan]

Wow i cant believe the efficency. Is there any hope for the HPX500 getting an AVCintra boost?

[Barry_Green]

Nope. The AVC-Intra codec board is a ~$3500 option card with its own CPU and DSP stuff to handle the workload. It slides into a special option slot on the 2000 (and is pre-built into the 3000). The HPX500 doesn't even have the slot, so there's no chance to take the card.

[TimurCivan]

drat.

Oh wait! i just noticed the HPX 3000 is a completely different camera fomr the HPX2000....... wow im behind....


From panny's webiste

"IT-based workflow while mastering with high-quality, full HD content. Using five 16GB P2 cards, professionals have an extended recording time of 200 minutes with AVC-Intra 50 at 1080/24pN, 100 minutes with AVC-I 100 at 1080 24pN, or 80 minutes with AVC-Intra 100 for 1080/60i, 50i, 30pN and 25pN. Recording times for DVCPRO HD is 80 minutes. Recording times will double with the release of Panasonic's 32GB P2 cards."

Did anyone notice the words "108024pn"???????????????

[Kenn Christenson]

Not to rain on anyone's parade, but with Red rapidly becoming a reality (shipping-wise,) I can't see why anyone would lay out that kind of money - when you could get a kickin' package, including a high quality lens (lenses,) brand new Mac and software and still have money left over.

[TimurCivan]

Red aint that easy. the whole post production side still needs to be arranged for REcode.

also, Red doesnt seem like they would be able to fulfill orders for a braodcasting network. thats thousands of cmaeras, all over the world. And believe me, a braodcaster isnt interested in dealing with 4k footage. They want their quick easy 1080p, and on to the next show.

Red is going ot be more beneficial to the commercial/Music video and monetarily backed Indie film industry.

[Joe_Digital]

Here's some info I got from panny Canada:

AVC-Intra is encoded at 10 bit at either 50 or 100MBPS. 50Mbps is 4:2:0 while 100Mbps is 4:2:2, both 10 bit. D5 is 235Mbps for 4:2:2 video. AVC-I 4:2:2 @ 100Mbps is equivalent in picture quality to video encoded at a 200Mbps data rate. So when you hear "near D5 quality" they are talking about (235-200 = 35Mbps) or technically 35 Mbps short of D5. I've attached a white paper with additional information about Panasonic's implementation of AVC-intra for your reference.

The AG-HPX2000 is currently available and has been shipping since March. It's a 1080 / 720 switchable P2 camera with a 1.1 mega pixel block. The optional AVC-Intra card for this camera will be available in July '07.

The AG-HPX3000 camera is a 1080 native AVC-Intra only P2 camera with a 2.2 mega pixel block. It's scheduled to start shipping late September / early October '07.

Both the HPX2000/3000 have the same gamma feature set as the current AJ-HDX900P tape-based camera.

[Kenn Christenson]

Red aint that easy. the whole post production side still needs to be arranged for REcode.

also, Red doesnt seem like they would be able to fulfill orders for a braodcasting network. thats thousands of cmaeras, all over the world. And believe me, a braodcaster isnt interested in dealing with 4k footage. They want their quick easy 1080p, and on to the next show.

Red is going ot be more beneficial to the commercial/Music video and monetarily backed Indie film industry.
I wouldn't be too quick to discount Red in doing the "quick and dirty" work.

Actually, you'll be able to edit with Red and Final Cut with the first shipment of the cameras -check this out: http://www.apple.com/finalcutstudio/action/?movie=red

It is also estimated that the current level of orders for Red are in the range of 4,000 with customers from Asia to Europe. How many $48,000 + lens cameras is Panasonic going to sell?

And you will be able to do the "quick and easy 1080p RGB" - skipping the Redcode Raw workflow and start editing just as you would with P2 cards.

[TimurCivan]

Thats true, but how many broadcasters are going to buy a brand new camera that needs "cinema" lenses, to shoot the news, and their sitcom like shows. also im sure these comapnies have long standing realtionships with panasonic sont and to a lesser extent JVC.

Remeber these network folks arent us. they are a business. We like things that are new and shiny. Alot of Ad ajencies still do most of their edititng and branding videos on a beta master. Some of them dont even have the capability for HD yet. They havent even moved up to Digibeta or DVCpro of any sort. The system is entrenched in old technology. Red is light years ahead of most corporate facilities.

Im not talking about post houses and small boutique production comapnies. im talking about the boring, lets sell penny loafers JC penny ad ajencies. I was shocked when is tarted workign with them when they asked me what a p2 card was..... and how to edit DVCprohd. they wanted beta dubs, or DV downconverts of the footage. i couldnt believe it.

I dont think the networks are ready for a RED camera yet.

[Kenn Christenson]

Thats true, but how many broadcasters are going to buy a brand new camera that needs "cinema" lenses, to shoot the news, and their sitcom like shows. also im sure these comapnies have long standing realtionships with panasonic sont and to a lesser extent JVC.
Acutally, Red has a B4 adapter and even with its' cost, Red is still far less expensive than the HPX3000.

And, speaking of networks, check this out: http://www.tvtechnology.com/pages/s.0092/t.6046.html


Remeber these network folks arent us. they are a business. We like things that are new and shiny. Alot of Ad ajencies still do most of their edititng and branding videos on a beta master. Some of them dont even have the capability for HD yet. They havent even moved up to Digibeta or DVCpro of any sort. The system is entrenched in old technology. Red is light years ahead of most corporate facilities.
I work at a relatively small corporate video facility and if Red was available, immediately, we would have purchased it - we went with the HPX500, instead. Plus, since I'm getting a Red, the facility will have one to shoot with, down the road. Trust me, there are a lot of times you WANT the background to be out of focus on a "corporate shoot."

[TimurCivan]

well its not that they dont want it, they just dont care. Like i said, small boutique production facilities are perfect for a RED system.

But once you see how a big place works.... man its like, any old crap will do.... i wish they cared about the quality of image more. Then again thats what keeps us in businessi suppose.

[Joe_Digital]

I've been blown away walking into some stations in the US and beyond and still see Beta SP, or now DVCam. Even a national network up here uses DVCam for acquisition, edits Avid, then outputs to SX, and then broadcast in SX. They aren't as discerning in house as they are for QC on outside productions.

But with the thousands of camera ops/viddeographers out there, the standard body with workflow...they've all been trained to operate in a certain way. Red is overkill for broadcasters who care about getting news out immediately, and there is comfort in having a tape in hand. I'm not saying it's right, but it's one less thing they have to worry about when meeting deadlines.

[Kenn Christenson]

Red is overkill for broadcasters who care about getting news out immediately, and there is comfort in having a tape in hand. I'm not saying it's right, but it's one less thing they have to worry about when meeting deadlines.
Last I heard, this thread was about a camera that doesn't use tape. I was giving a comparison between the HPX3000 and Red, not Red and a tape-based camera.

If Red is overkill for those referenced above, then the HPX3000 should be overkill, as well.

[Joe_Digital]

I think we're all getting the point...even XDCam was introduced what, 3 years ago? And they've only sold 9,000 units worldwide? It takes time to change people's minds. And I was one of the fan boys for XD when it came out but when they refused to allow the 50 Mbit to be upconverted within the F70 unit, and then come out with the 35 Mbit 4:2:0 scheme, I lost faith. They should have gone straight to the 50 MBit 2/3" CCD HD, but I'm just a monkey typing in Winnipeg...

The 3000 could be a very sweet camera, but Panny is refusing to commit to Varicam frame rates and the extra gamma settings...things that clearly those of us doing long form love about the prospects of this unit.

I will be getting both Red (on reservation order hold hell) and we're about to go to the 3000 with a very real reservation as a replacement for doc and drama series work...I have two features that are financed and ready to go in August but both cameras won't be delivered to us by then, which means renting...and at least for the first we'll be doing 35mm 2.35.

[TimurCivan]

edit: in light of new learnings for make benefit timur.

[Matty_g]

I thought the red had 4 mini xlr's.

[TimurCivan]

Oh hey my bad it does record Audio.

[AJ101]

Sorry, when is this red camera shipping? And how long are they talking about it?

[Kenn Christenson]

Red is currently in an engineering hold, due to supply problems and trouble with one of the boards in the camera. Red is supposed to make some sort of announcement regarding shipping schedules around the middle of June. Any speculation as to when the cameras will actually ship will be just that: speculation.